So I got thinking after seeing this...

The 2017 South Afrifur Convention was held from 14-17 July at Magalies Retreat with 28 attendees.
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

So I got thinking after seeing this...

#1

Post by Leeward »

How do you know you can start thinking about hosting a successful convention?

Like this:
Untitled.png
Link goes here.

Large existing fanbase - check.
Starting capital from fanbase- check.
Venue easily accessible to a large portion of fanbase - check.

So now I wonder... Why on earth is ZAFur organising a con that has none of those things? The only conclusion I can reach is that it's not a con, it's a glorified market day slash get-together. It's being held in the middle of nowhere and funded by some benefactor who isn't interested in making a profit because there is no plan for a repeat. Sure it might actually happen, and yeah it might be fun, but what's the point if most people who would have been interested aren't prepared to travel that far, and will never get the opportunity to go to a repeat occasion closer to home? That seems awfully selfish.

Now is it just me or is ZAFur a teeny tiny little bit too big for its shoes?
User avatar
Splicer-Fox
Posts: 1956
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Fox fennec springbok thing
Region: Gauteng
Location: Thailand
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#2

Post by Splicer-Fox »

I agree.
Convention? More like bigger and costly than normal fur meet.
My idea is we should sell it like:

Let’s do a furry holiday somewhere. (A venue or a guy’s plot)
And then the organisers can perhaps plan small events and distractions.
• Like organising a movie night with a projector.
• A cook off.
• Games?
• Improv show with fur suits.
• Mud wrestling.
• Forget about a market. (we don’t have the sellers byers or money to sustain it)

Hopefully it will last for more than 2 days.
I don’t know about the money though. Unfortunately all good things cost money and furs without will need a plan or support. (And trying to make a profit will lead to more stress but perhaps it should)
As for location… plane tickets or petrol (Much like the furries overseas do.)
Nasheera
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:03 am

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#3

Post by Nasheera »

I think setting up some kind of a mini-market would be a good idea. It will give more of an actual 'convention' vibe.

We distribute ROGZ products so I wouldn't mind setting up shop and giving discount to all furry friends!! Maybe even a pancake stand.
User avatar
Sev
Superbike Snow Leopard
Posts: 6596
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:27 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Snow Leopard
Region: Western Cape
Location: A Twisty Road

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#4

Post by Sev »

Sorry guys, but I ain't flying to Bloemfontein just to go to a con - there isn't even anything else to do over there.
User avatar
Adagio
Warm Hearted
Posts: 3589
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:06 am
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Other
Species: Snow Leopard
Region: Gauteng
Location: Pretoria, Silverton
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#5

Post by Adagio »

First you guys complained that the con didn't happen. Now you're complaining that it is?

Personally I'll probably not go due to funding...
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#6

Post by Leeward »

Nasheera wrote:We distribute ROGZ products so I wouldn't mind setting up shop and giving discount to all furry friends!! Maybe even a pancake stand.
That doesn't exactly distinguish it from any other market though, no offence. Also since you brought it up allow me to do some shameless self-promotion: Leeworks Gear
Adagio wrote:First you guys complained that the con didn't happen. Now you're complaining that it is?
There was general disappointment in it being postponed, but nobody complained about it not happening. And if you think I'm complaining that it's happening, you're missing my point entirely.
User avatar
Galahad
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:31 pm
Gender: Male
Region: Gauteng
Location: Pretoria

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#7

Post by Galahad »

My personal opinion is that, if there is to be a convention, it would have to grow out of a smaller arrangement that is situated in a place of high furry density (such as in the Western Cape). This is what occurred with Anthrocon - it was initially just an offshoot from a regular furry Halloween party whose attendance gradually increased until it was feasible enough to form a convention, which attracted 500 attendees on its first iteration in 1997. Eurofurence had similar beginnings - it began as an annual conference/furmeet event in Germany in 1995, with only 19 attendees in its first incidence.

Aiming to establish a convention without a direct and regularly successful precedent is ambitious and I'd imagine quite difficult. The major furry conventions in America and Europe seem to have evolved out of highly successful smaller regular conferences and meetings that initially did not have the goal of a nationwide audience. Perhaps South Africa can begin something similar? Maybe look at the regular events that are occurring in Gauteng and the Western Cape, and promote them and develop them. In time, something much larger might come out of one of them, or perhaps they will merge after having grown.
User avatar
Rakuen Growlithe
Fire Puppy
Posts: 6718
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:24 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Growlithe (pokemon)
Region: Other
Location: Pretoria
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#8

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Leeward wrote:Now is it just me or is ZAFur a teeny tiny little bit too big for its shoes?
Have you forgotten that this has happened in the past?
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#9

Post by Leeward »

No I haven't. What was the attendance like? Did it happen again? Did it make a profit? Exactly.
User avatar
Rakuen Growlithe
Fire Puppy
Posts: 6718
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:24 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Growlithe (pokemon)
Region: Other
Location: Pretoria
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#10

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

It happened twice, between 14-16 people. Not much less than the first Eurofurence and a pretty decent number of South African furs at the time. It was never meant to make a profit.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#11

Post by Leeward »

OMFG 14-16 PEOPLE!!!1 :shock: That's like the entire current active userbase of the forum! How on earth did you get that many people to attend? Did you have enough chairs for everyone?? :o

Not meant to make a profit? Then clearly you have no fucking clue how to run a convention.
User avatar
Sev
Superbike Snow Leopard
Posts: 6596
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:27 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Snow Leopard
Region: Western Cape
Location: A Twisty Road

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#12

Post by Sev »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:It happened twice, between 14-16 people. Not much less than the first Eurofurence and a pretty decent number of South African furs at the time. It was never meant to make a profit.
How long ago were these?

Also, haven't there been meets larger than that?
User avatar
Franky
The Bad Guy
Posts: 1748
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:32 am
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Straight
Species: Mortally Challenged Fox
Region: Gauteng
Location: Where bad things happen.
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#13

Post by Franky »

Sev wrote:Sorry guys, but I ain't flying to Bloemfontein just to go to a con - there isn't even anything else to do over there.
Are you talking scenery wise or actual activities? Cause there wasn't that much most furries were willing to do in CT during my time there as well.

Like to drive more than 10km or simply drink a few beers. Lol Apart from the small crowd who know their names.
Sev wrote:
Rakuen Growlithe wrote:It happened twice, between 14-16 people. Not much less than the first Eurofurence and a pretty decent number of South African furs at the time. It was never meant to make a profit.
How long ago were these?

Also, haven't there been meets larger than that?
I think this is the point Rakuen is trying to make. We're more than capable of gathering more furries than the first Eurofurence...
User avatar
Galahad
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:31 pm
Gender: Male
Region: Gauteng
Location: Pretoria

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#14

Post by Galahad »

I am not entirely sure, but I have heard that some of the braais at Victor's place here in Gauteng have attracted more than 40 people, close to 50.
It is events like these that could serve as a basis for something larger in the future. The potential is there, but I think here in South Africa it is just very hard to tap into. Not to mention, the aggravating rifts that some of the members tend to draw between furry groups contributes nothing.
User avatar
Rakuen Growlithe
Fire Puppy
Posts: 6718
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:24 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Growlithe (pokemon)
Region: Other
Location: Pretoria
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#15

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Leeward wrote:Not meant to make a profit? Then clearly you have no fucking clue how to run a convention.
I don't know how things are going to work now, I'm not running this convention. But we were never in it to make a profit. We were doing this because we had a passion and we wanted to get people together. That was the reason for starting a forum and it was the reason for making a convention. Maybe things will change on the convention front but the way we originally did it we just needed the money to cover expenses.
Sev wrote:How long ago were these?
In 2008 and 2010 (actually held early 2011). Everything here had just started so it was actually almost 40% of registered forum users in the first year. Although I think some people weren't on the forums. But yes, local meets now are much bigger. That's why something like this can work.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
User avatar
Valerion
Alpha Wolf
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:50 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Werewolf
Region: Gauteng
Location: ::1
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#16

Post by Valerion »

I'll note that this is not really a ZAFur con. The group here had first used the name South Afrifur, true, but we have agreed to lend it to the con for this year. At the event we can re-think what we want to be. There are some forumites involved, including me, but the majority of the organizers are not active here. The intent is to create something for the fandom at large, and personally I completely support this effort. I will do whatever I can to help it succeed.

There are way too many rifts in the fandom, for various reasons. I want to find a way to bring the fandom together, in however small way we can. And I want to meet the other furs from outside JHB sometime.

Many years ago, we organised cons. First in CT, then in PE. These were really no more than meets, to be honest, small affairs. Then I was given the task of organizing it in JHB, together with Denim. And it turned out as a disaster.

Furs in JHB didn't want to stay at a venue, because they can drive home in the evenings, drunk or otherwise. Furs in CT complained that JHB is too far and they would never travel that far. And why does it have to be this expensive (have you EVER tried to find a venue in JHB??). And why can't they simply ... the list of complaints went on and on, and when it came time to actually put down a deposit to hire a place, no one was interested in assisting. So I wrote the whole thing off as a collosal waste of time. And still the CT and JHB furs have their own meets, sometimes huge, but very little to no interaction between the groups take place.

So, several years later, I still wanted to have a convention in South Africa where we can try to break down this artificial barrier. Together with some other furs, we planned and organised. Initially the con was supposed to take place last year, but with the amount of organizing needed we realized we won't be ready, so we moved it out a year.

Why in BFN? That is for a few reasons:
1) BFN is REALLY cheap compared to JHB and CT. We will have to charge a LOT more to get similar facilities in the cities.
2) We want to take the furs a little out of their comfort zones, where it doesn't just feel like another meet with a sleepover. We want it to feel different, and special, a once-a-year thing.

We could leave it, and let it grow, sure, but the feeling I get from meets in JHB is that it is all they will stay. People get around to have a braai one evening and go home again. This doesn't really build a cohesive fandom, it just forms and re-inforces cliques. The same people goes to the meets in JHB, and the same group goes to the meets in CT, and never the two shall meet.

In short, I want to reach across to the ones I can never meet, and be furry with them as well. And I can't do it in JHB, and I can't do it in CT. Which leaves us with very few options, unfortunately.
User avatar
Valerion
Alpha Wolf
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:50 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Werewolf
Region: Gauteng
Location: ::1
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#17

Post by Valerion »

Also, if you ave anything to suggest or if you want to sell your products or similar, please let us know. Easiest is via the con website, on the "Contact Us" page. The con organizers all gets emailed with those, and we do read the emails.

http://south-afrifur.co.za/contact.php
User avatar
Faanvolla
Plaas Brak
Posts: 1961
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:55 am
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Dog (Vampire)
Region: Western Cape
Location: Stellenbosch
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#18

Post by Faanvolla »

Sev wrote:there isn't even anything else to do over there.
I can recommend the two cheetah sanctuaries just outside Bloem,
They have lions, leopards, wolves, and other animals too.
http://www.wildcatfarm.co.za/
http://www.cheetahexperience.com/


The burgers at the botanical gardens are the best in Bloem, and if you like walking, there's a bunch of trails up the hill & then you have a nice view over the city.

There's an art museum and history museum, but if you aren't the type to enjoy those then obv don't go there.
Seize the day, not your bearings.
Steam, Rockstar SocialClub, Uplay, Battlenet: Faanvolla#2539, Telegram: @Faanvolla
Switch Code: SW-0054-4917-1029
DeviantArt,Furaffinity,SoFurry, Weasyl, FurryNetwork
ProfilePic by hanimetion
User avatar
Fluke
Tyrant's Eye
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:47 am
Region: Other

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#19

Post by Fluke »

Leeward wrote:How do you know you can start thinking about hosting a successful convention?

Like this:

Untitled.png
Link goes here.

Large existing fanbase - check.
Starting capital from fanbase- check.
Venue easily accessible to a large portion of fanbase - check.

So now I wonder... Why on earth is ZAFur organising a con that has none of those things? The only conclusion I can reach is that it's not a con, it's a glorified market day slash get-together. It's being held in the middle of nowhere and funded by some benefactor who isn't interested in making a profit because there is no plan for a repeat. Sure it might actually happen, and yeah it might be fun, but what's the point if most people who would have been interested aren't prepared to travel that far, and will never get the opportunity to go to a repeat occasion closer to home? That seems awfully selfish.

Now is it just me or is ZAFur a teeny tiny little bit too big for its shoes?
Nicely put. I've been holding my tongue for years on this ZAFur con nonsense. Love the last line, puts into words what I have felt a lot about ZAFur and the South African furries.


Splicer-Fox wrote:I agree.
Convention? More like bigger and costly than normal fur meet.
My idea is we should sell it like:

Let’s do a furry holiday somewhere. (A venue or a guy’s plot)
And then the organisers can perhaps plan small events and distractions.
• Like organising a movie night with a projector.
• A cook off.
• Games?
• Improv show with fur suits.
• Mud wrestling.
• Forget about a market. (we don’t have the sellers byers or money to sustain it)

Hopefully it will last for more than 2 days.
I don’t know about the money though. Unfortunately all good things cost money and furs without will need a plan or support. (And trying to make a profit will lead to more stress but perhaps it should)
As for location… plane tickets or petrol (Much like the furries overseas do.)
Sev wrote:Sorry guys, but I ain't flying to Bloemfontein just to go to a con - there isn't even anything else to do over there.
Adagio wrote:Personally I'll probably not go due to funding...
Good points. Most people here aren't as able to travel to meet even nearly the density or attendance levels that overseas cons have. We as a country are poorer and further apart.

Nasheera wrote:I think setting up some kind of a mini-market would be a good idea. It will give more of an actual 'convention' vibe.

We distribute ROGZ products so I wouldn't mind setting up shop and giving discount to all furry friends!! Maybe even a pancake stand.
Why are you so desperate for it to be a "Convention"?
I feel like almost all that are wanting it to be a "Convention" just want to be a part of, or at, the conventions they've seen in the media. Not really able to for many reasons, so they want a "Convention" here. When really all it is, is a mass-grouping of people with similar interests. No need to be so formal about making it like the "Conventions" you see on YouTube or whatever.

Realistically - a "Convention" like you see in the 'States is not gonna happen in South Africa.

Galahad wrote:My personal opinion is that, if there is to be a convention, it would have to grow out of a smaller arrangement that is situated in a place of high furry density (such as in the Western Cape). This is what occurred with Anthrocon - it was initially just an offshoot from a regular furry Halloween party whose attendance gradually increased until it was feasible enough to form a convention, which attracted 500 attendees on its first iteration in 1997. Eurofurence had similar beginnings - it began as an annual conference/furmeet event in Germany in 1995, with only 19 attendees in its first incidence.

Aiming to establish a convention without a direct and regularly successful precedent is ambitious and I'd imagine quite difficult. The major furry conventions in America and Europe seem to have evolved out of highly successful smaller regular conferences and meetings that initially did not have the goal of a nationwide audience. Perhaps South Africa can begin something similar? Maybe look at the regular events that are occurring in Gauteng and the Western Cape, and promote them and develop them. In time, something much larger might come out of one of them, or perhaps they will merge after having grown.
1) If people can't dedicate themselves to smaller events, and the turn-out of those are poor alone. Why would a larger-scale one be any different percentagly?
2) What percentage of USA furries are there that go to cons? Apply that to South Africa and ZAFur active members.... you'd then have a very rough idea for your potential turnout at absolute best.

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:It happened twice, between 14-16 people. Not much less than the first Eurofurence and a pretty decent number of South African furs at the time. It was never meant to make a profit.
Problem is that in-terms of a Euro, US or Asian country. That's a tiny fraction of the furs there, in South Africa it's actually a lot more.
User avatar
Raven Song
Stealer of Time
Posts: 7039
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:56 pm
Gender: Does it matter?
Sexual preference: Other
Species: Shapeshifting Anubian
Region: Other
Location: Londonium ONce more...
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#20

Post by Raven Song »

I gotta admit that, after all this time, I am still flabbergasted at the way people are so... negative (?) about this whole thing.

It's called a Con because it want's to be more than just a furmeet.

If you don't wanna come, guess what, no one is forcing you too.

If you don't like it/the place/ the people/ the forum, guess what, go away, no one cares.

In the last howevermanyyears that I have been a member of the fandom, I have never been more embarrassed to call myself a South African furry than when you guys start this shit all over again.

Do you want to know WHY cons and the fandom do so much better overseas than they/it does in SA??? BECAUSE EVERYONE EITHER WORKS TOGETHER OR STEPS BACK AND LET SOMEONE ELSE DO IT. And when the someone else has done it or at least tried, we pat them on the back and say "cool, can't wait for round 2".

I almost want to say you guys need to grow up but that's not quite it. You guys need to get over it. If someone wants to be x, don't squash their dreams, that just makes you a selfish sad potato.

Don't be selfish sad potatoes okay.
potatop_by_agraffkowa-d8ntht7.png
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist. Pablo Picasso
User avatar
Galahad
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:31 pm
Gender: Male
Region: Gauteng
Location: Pretoria

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#21

Post by Galahad »

Fluke wrote:1) If people can't dedicate themselves to smaller events, and the turn-out of those are poor alone. Why would a larger-scale one be any different percentagly?
There have been incidents of smaller events being held regularly with persistent attendance. For example, the braais at Victor's place, which were hosted in June, July, September and other times with attendance at one point even reaching 37. These can be viewed under the "Gauteng" sub-forum. A very significant portion of the attendees were regular, indicating, as you put it, "dedication" (for example, Ivic, Arashi and Jake Dane, among others). In theory, all one needs is one such successful event for a larger one to evolve out of it. There is no guarantee, but a possibility.
Fluke wrote:2) What percentage of USA furries are there that go to cons? Apply that to South Africa and ZAFur active members.... you'd then have a very rough idea for your potential turnout at absolute best.
I see your logic. :) However, If I did that, I would not be taking into account several things; for one, the fact that the USA has a much larger surface area than SA (about 9 times larger) and thus furries are distributed across a much larger geographic range, making travel to such cons far more expensive and tiring. (Anthrocon 2017 will be hosted in Pennsylvania; any Californian furs would have to travel almost 4 000km) For it to be more accurate, I'd have to restrict my sample to a smaller area around the site of the con - more local, which is also closer to what we are talking about here. And that already makes it a little more optimistic.
User avatar
Splicer-Fox
Posts: 1956
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Fox fennec springbok thing
Region: Gauteng
Location: Thailand
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#22

Post by Splicer-Fox »

I think we have different ideas on what counts as a convention?
But if 20 furries can come together and do this:
Is the furcamp (sort of / kind of) a convention then?
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#23

Post by Leeward »

RavenSong wrote:I gotta admit that, after all this time, I am still flabbergasted at the way people are so... negative (?) about this whole thing.
It's not pessimism, it's realism. Learn the bloody difference.
If you don't wanna come, guess what, no one is forcing you too.

If you don't like it/the place/ the people/ the forum, guess what, go away, no one cares.
And that's how you get a "convention" with 14-16 attendees. Unfriendly elitism and total lack of perspective.
Fluke wrote:
Leeward wrote:Now is it just me or is ZAFur a teeny tiny little bit too big for its shoes?
Nicely put. I've been holding my tongue for years on this ZAFur con nonsense. Love the last line, puts into words what I have felt a lot about ZAFur and the South African furries.
Thank you, I'm glad to see someone agrees.

And it's not just the con. It's stuff like Rakuen, admin of a 641-member forum, incessantly whining on Flayrah about FA, a 88281-member forum, because of their upper management's nepotism and shenanigans, and all because five years later he's still butthurt over getting permabanned for trying to rationalise legalising child porn. Meanwhile, he's no better himself, denying a voice to anyone he doesn't agree with, and listing all his "prestigious titles" on his signature: a glorified blogger on an obscure furry "news" (i.e. echo chamber) site, a paid-for title that requires no merit or effort whatsoever, and a link to his own profile on this very site. I mean, are you for real?

Just FYI, all the info in the paragraph above is both true and publicly visible.
User avatar
Valerion
Alpha Wolf
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:50 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Gay
Species: Werewolf
Region: Gauteng
Location: ::1
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#24

Post by Valerion »

Leeward wrote:And it's not just the con. It's stuff like Rakuen, admin of a 641-member forum, incessantly whining on Flayrah about FA, a 88281-member forum, because of their upper management's nepotism and shenanigans, and all because five years later he's still butthurt over getting permabanned for trying to rationalise legalising child porn. Meanwhile, he's no better himself, denying a voice to anyone he doesn't agree with, and listing all his "prestigious titles" on his signature: a glorified blogger on an obscure furry "news" (i.e. echo chamber) site, a paid-for title that requires no merit or effort whatsoever, and a link to his own profile on this very site. I mean, are you for real?

Just FYI, all the info in the paragraph above is both true and publicly visible.
Please refrain from attacking other members of the forum, and I'll note that this part is off-topic.

Rakuen has nothing to do with the con planning, nor is he kept any more informed than anyone else on the forum.

As I said in my post, it's not a purely ZAFur effort, although we are assisting with it and supporting it, so please do not intermingle the forum and the con in this case.
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#25

Post by Leeward »

No matter how much you deny it, the con and the forum ARE intermingled, because of the enormous, near total overlap in involvement.
User avatar
Splicer-Fox
Posts: 1956
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Bi
Species: Fox fennec springbok thing
Region: Gauteng
Location: Thailand
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#26

Post by Splicer-Fox »

South Africa should be added on this list.
http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Furry_camping

Perhaps we can take a look at why the camping seems to be working out.
(I personally think it’s because the organisers are really fantastic)

Although I would not really know where to start with organising something like a convention.
I think that if we just have a place nearest to the most furries.
Space and time enough for people to stay for a few days.
Basic facilities for those people to sleep, shower and eat.
A few organised activities for each day.
And perhaps a space so somebody can set up a “mini-market”.
That would be it right?

So it’s like the furcamp but not far away and with just a little more organising stuff?
User avatar
Erdwolf_TVL
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:41 pm
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Straight
Species: Aardwolf
Region: Western Cape
Location: Cape Town
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#27

Post by Erdwolf_TVL »

Paid. Going. Looking forward to seeing some of you there.

(I don't really read too much into - or care about - the undercurrents.)

And even if I get to have one decent conversation with one interesting local furry, it will be all the worth the trip.

And if all else fails, at least Bloem has a McDonalds and a HolidayInn. A change of scenery is as good as a holiday.
Leeward
Recalcitrant Ruminant
Posts: 7036
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#28

Post by Leeward »

Erdwolf got chill, I like that. Unfortunately I would see that same outcome as a total waste, but that's just me.
User avatar
Ivic_Wulfe
Viridis Spes Vulupe
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:58 am
Gender: Male
Sexual preference: Other
Species: Green Folf
Region: Gauteng
Location: Pretoria East (I prefer Valhalla)
Contact:

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#29

Post by Ivic_Wulfe »

Leeward wrote:No matter how much you deny it, the con and the forum ARE intermingled, because of the enormous, near total overlap in involvement.
As to this, we really aren't, yes I'm a global moderator.

And here's the rest of the Furs working on this:

Yukon
Scratch
Doge
Yote
Valerion

As well as many other furs who are volunteering to help with things like DJing - Furnix and the possibility of a few locally sourced convention workshops a guest of honour from overseas, a place for selling as well and we have earmarked a charity to give to as well. Soon to also help with some of the things after being at AC - Taka and Rocket Dog. I also listen to people like Leeward, Tetsudra, Totem etc. and yeah we disagree on things it doesn't mean that I don't take them into account. The following will look at some of the processes followed.

Speaking for myself. Since I'd suggested this initiative far before any of that happened even in respect to the idea of the Community Representatives which, at the time, I thought could become something a bit more useful to the community as a whole, that really didn't pan out the way I wanted to and honestly, after all that's happened since I stepped away from that position, I don't necessarily know what it's purpose is at present. (Maybe just a practice at the old break an egg for an omelette kinda deal.)

The convention, as it stands and initially, is my initiative that became more collaborative as we moved forward people wanted to join up. I thought that it's a way to at least get furs to begin to take interest in the idea of a yearly, furry, country-wide event. With more than just 15-20 people. While doing our initial research in getting people excited we've already got over 50 people who signed up at least in interest, this even after knowing the prices. However, this event has very little to do with ZAFur. The only thing that it does have to do with it is that we have Valerion on our board as a "voice of reason" in that he's been involved in attempting to run a convention that fell pretty hard on it's face due to reasons that I thought were important to note and that his input would be able to help avoid.

This entire idea, the convention, the community representatives, I'd thought it would help with the growth of the community, larger provincial meets and so on, were things that I'd like to have happen which would mean, that, since the forum was a place where a conversation would be able to update on things etc. It was meant to at best, build a platform.

I can't stress that enough, it's an attempt to get people more involved. To get people to start taking notice and getting people actively involved. Honestly, I can say that it, in part has worked. The amount of people who have been wanting to be involved has been phenomenal and I take that information to heart. All of it. All these side conversations, all of the bickering, all of "I can do it better" and we've implemented a lot of it and as much as we possibly can. In fact, Tetsudra has mentioned how much I've "thrown his ideas out of the window".

I've had my personal conversations with him and at least 75% of his suggestions are there, however, within the space of two weeks, after I'd spoken to our group, mentioning that I'd like to have him on the panel of people to help, the first major blow up on the forum in respect to the convention happened, the reactions following that, really made it apparent that it may not have been such a good fit. However, I'd have liked to speak to him more about it. Of the things not implemented, one of them was the full commercialization of the entire con. I wanted to be able to, on a smaller scale get furs to come together and get together from Coast to Coast, get the vibe started from there. Going super all out, seemed ambitious to me, while somehow I'm being told I'm being ambitious to at least except 50 people.

We're just starting out. This was to be a first step towards maybe going even further, building the structures, seeing the pitfalls, hearing the naysayers and taking what they say into account, even if it means the loss of whatever sanity I have left. However, furs have expressed interest in this, furs have expressed a want to be involved and this can only grow from there.

For now, what the main aim was to get together, whoever was willing, to show it can be done and then to move from there. Maybe it is "bad for business" but for whom and for what?

Yes, it's expensive for a trip to Bloem, but then there are many reasons as to why Bloem and they're placed down in our convention website.

In respect to the Podcast, which was initially, just a platform to chat, I'd wanted to incorporate it as something fun for us. Somewhere where we could hear from international furs and cursorily also have us out there for others to find. The name was for some of the time a tie-in for the convention in some way. but it has since then, really become it's own entity with a slot on Furry.fm every Sunday Evening.

In some ways, I'm surprised that people think that this initiative was to somehow just gain fame and that everyone wanted was a piece of this imaginary pie that we seemed to be getting. We just started having fun with it.

If you want a crux of why so many of these initiatives were started by myself and why I've wanted to get involved...was because I was having fun with it, I was and recently after hearing some of our initial data as well as convention tallies so far and beginning to really, really gear up for this to happen, I've become excited for it again. I hold no agenda, I hold no want for some stupid form of fame, I just wanted to have as much fun as the guys from overseas did.
AND THEN THE CAGE COMES DOWN! The cage with the Japanese fighting spiders inside, your mother strikes a match off her forearm and tells you to dance in the front room for money... - Dylan Moran
User avatar
Fluke
Tyrant's Eye
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:47 am
Region: Other

Re: So I got thinking after seeing this...

#30

Post by Fluke »

Leeward wrote: And it's not just the con. It's stuff like Rakuen, admin of a 641-member forum, incessantly whining on Flayrah about FA, a 88281-member forum, because of their upper management's nepotism and shenanigans, and all because five years later he's still butthurt over getting permabanned for trying to rationalise legalising child porn. Meanwhile, he's no better himself, denying a voice to anyone he doesn't agree with, and listing all his "prestigious titles" on his signature: a glorified blogger on an obscure furry "news" (i.e. echo chamber) site, a paid-for title that requires no merit or effort whatsoever, and a link to his own profile on this very site. I mean, are you for real?

Just FYI, all the info in the paragraph above is both true and publicly visible.
Meh like Valerion said, leave Rakuen out of this. Child porn is pretty cool after all B)

inb4 people don't get a joke
Post Reply