Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

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Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#1

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

No doubt you're all familiar with the annoying prompt asking you to install Windows 10. Apparently that's not good enough so Microsoft is working on making Windows 7 and 8 less fun to use and doing all they can to force people to 10 against their will. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... 0e1c42593f) Tied to that is the introduction of some user tracking features which they quietly slipped into 7 and 8 and which you might want to remove. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... e1c3d4312a)
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#2

Post by Sev »

And thank the Lord for that! As a software dev, I can tell you that the biggest frustration in my field is having to support legacy software - IE 8, I'm looking at you.

It's a free upgrade - people shouldn't be complaining.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#3

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Sev wrote:And thank the Lord for that! As a software dev, I can tell you that the biggest frustration in my field is having to support legacy software - IE 8, I'm looking at you.

It's a free upgrade - people shouldn't be complaining.
Only it's not really free. I've heard many things about it that I just don't want. Like spying on users, talk about online accounts, advertising in programmes. I paid for a copy of Windows 7, specifically cause that was the one I wanted, and it's meant to be supported for the next however many years. You can't do something someone doesn't want and then complain they're ungrateful because you did it for free.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#4

Post by Sev »

Like previous version of Windows, I have been using 10 since the alpha, and I have not noticed any of those things. My only two real pet-peeves are One Drive and the fact that search is now slower than before.

People, and I'm certainly no exception, like whining about anything and everything. Even solid red cups at Starbucks.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#5

Post by Raven Song »

I absolutely love Win10. I find it super easy to work with, efficient, it doesn't backchat me and it was easy as pie to install... literally it took like I think half an hour to install onto my PC (maybe 45 minutes). It doesn't update that often and adverts??? what adverts? Literally the only thing that irks me is the pop up notifications from email (which isn't win 10, its my outlook which isn't a registered copy so I cant stop that) and my antivirus software which is outdated...

otherwise I think Win10 is amazing and I've suggested to everyone I know to upgrade.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#6

Post by Faanvolla »

Only annoying ad I'm getting is the one for Office.
(have a purchased Office 2010 installed)
2016-02-07.png
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Everything else is fine, or better than 8.1 imo.
Can turn on most of the privacy stuff (even if its annoying or whatevs)
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#7

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Sev wrote:Like previous version of Windows, I have been using 10 since the alpha, and I have not noticed any of those things.
Well one won't notice it recording and spying unless you looked deeply into what it did. Windows 10 does record a lot of data and send it Microsoft, while also making it very difficult to turn off. (http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/17/technol ... index.html) But, apparently 10 doesn't try to force you to get a Microsoft account as much as 8 did but without one what you can do with the OS is limited. (http://www.windowscentral.com/manage-us ... windows-10) Also you can see the adverts which pop up in solitaire here: http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-solit ... emove-ads/

Apart from updating, obviously, I don't think an OS should need an internet connection to access its features. It should stand alone on your PC.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#8

Post by Raven Song »

but it doesn't need an internet connection? I use mine offline just as easily as I use it online. the only thing I need it to be online for is the internet (duh) and Minecraft...
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#9

Post by Fluke »

Windows 10 Ent. Master Race reporting in
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#10

Post by Randall »

I am keeping Windows 7, just for Steam games I have. I have transitioned over to Mac for other things, and I do my work on my Mac. Linux is used for all other stuff.

Its not been an easy road, but I am tired, very tired of Microsoft's bullshit.

I have already disabled automatic updates on Windows 7 to stop this shit being installed automatically
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#11

Post by Franky »

Win 10 is great so far. Killing cortana after she died in halo was fun.

Other than that it is a pretty decent OS.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#12

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

This is hardly what I'd call great...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-levels/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp#e9fdacc7aa99 wrote:over an eight hour period Windows 10 tried to send data back to 51 different Microsoft IP addresses over 5500 times. After 30 hours of use, Windows 10 expanded that data reporting to 113 non-private IP addresses.
Even with a clean Enterprise install, privacy settings all on and an add-on to block tracking, there were still almost 3000 pieces of data sent out to 30 IP addresses.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#13

Post by vakie »

I honestly don't care if they have my data. I guarantee no one actually reads all the data. They probably store it in a database and extract the relevant data using some algorithm. I get that it's probably more of an ethics issue for you, but I'd rather pay for it by watching an ad or two and letting them take some useful but unimportant data.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#14

Post by Hargan »

Let's not forget the dear ATI card users who have been screwed over by both ATI and Windows 10 not supporting the graphics cards, and that their latest "patch" was a rollback one.

As good as an OS is, there's going to be problems you'll find. Personally, I agree with the sentiment that I paid for 7, so I wanna use 7. I've had enough issues with Microsoft as is :P On that note, however, I do also note I haven't updated 7 in years.

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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#15

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Hargan wrote:Let's not forget the dear ATI card users who have been screwed over by both ATI and Windows 10 not supporting the graphics cards, and that their latest "patch" was a rollback one.
Just like Just Cause 3...
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#16

Post by Fluke »

Hargan wrote:Let's not forget the dear ATI card users who have been screwed over by both ATI and Windows 10 not supporting the graphics cards, and that their latest "patch" was a rollback one.
Nope. Just false. The latest 'driver' is a hot-patch to fix the found issues with the Crimson initial driver release. No rollback drivers have been released within the past few years, if possibly ever.

AMD Supported Windows 10 well before any other GPU manuf. (Incl. Intel) and have had stellar support for the Operating System since it's early, early test-builds. nVidia had pre-release issues with Windows 10 just full-stop not being supported. And Intel, well, it still hobbles along like all awful Intel GPU drivers.

You're thinking of the Crimson driver fan-speed issue with R9 380 / R9 380X cards, which affected all Operating Systems with a 380/380X and more likely if they had used Overdrive in the past or currently used it.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#17

Post by Hargan »

Fluke:
My friend's laptop runs worse on an ATI 3d card on windows 10 than a pc hit by lightning, because ATI are stuffing around with the drivers.

"A pc hit by lightning lags less on fallout 3" was his exact words.

Card in question being stuffed over by drivers appears to be: ATI Mobility Radeon HD4330

Apologies in Edit:

My laptop upgraded to Windows 10, then they decided 'nope, we're not supporting this card any more, and won't release any drivers that are compatible with Windows 10'

With that in mind, and forced upgrades, I think a lot of older systems are gonna get stuffed over with Win10

And the rollback error I made was:
The main problem is that it took them around 2 months to change up their site showing they weren't supporting everything. Meaning by the time I knew ATI was screwing me, I was way past the Windows 10 rollback date
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#18

Post by Fluke »

1) Just because you know someone that is having slow-down issues with a legacy graphics card from circa-2008 doesn't mean anything relevant and is not driver related.

2) There is a Windows 10 driver for the HD4000 series. Google is a wonderful tool

3) "ATI are stuffing around with drivers". A subjective opinion backed by no evidence. One point to disprove that is the massive improvements there have been in AMD drivers since they split the development team off and focused them on driver updates. Here and here.

4) I have no idea what you're talking about. They currently support HD2000+ GPUs in W10 (not like you can't just use a Win8 driver anyway) and the legacy-support announcement for HD4000 GPUs was made a long time ago (September 2013). See here and here.

I know it's easier to blame others, but really don't. At least try to Google the issue first.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#19

Post by vakie »

3) "ATI are stuffing around with drivers". A subjective opinion backed by no evidence. One point to disprove that is the massive improvements there have been in AMD drivers since they split the development team off and focused them on driver updates. Here and here.
I got myself an R9 390 November last year and since then GTA V & ARK have been crashing frequently. A driver update seemed to fix it but after the next driver update I started to experience crashes again. I'm not sure what the cause is but the GFX card seems to be the common denominator here (haven't tested it yet after the latest driver update because I moved on to other working games but it seems to mostly be fixed now).

I do know that Ark is designed to work with Nvidia so it's probably an issue on the devs side, for GTA V I would expect them to cater for ATI as well so not sure what to say, might be a windows 10 issue.

It seems that some people have issues and some people don't so it's difficult to point fingers.

Other than that I'm absolutely in love with it :D.

As for some evidence:

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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#20

Post by Hargan »

Fluke wrote:2) There is a Windows 10 driver for the HD4000 series. Google is a wonderful tool
Article Number: GPU-624

ATI Radeon™ HD 4000/ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4000, ATI Radeon™ HD 3000/ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3000, and ATI Radeon™ HD 2000/ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 2000 Series Graphics reached peak performance optimization in October, 2013.

No additional driver releases are planned for these products.

AND

If your system is equipped with one of these products, you may consider the following options:

Continue using the last operating system that fully supported your graphics card.
Upgrade to an AMD graphics product that provides Windows® 10 support. For information about resellers and product availability, visit: http://shop.amd.com

All from the article you linked to ;3

Yes, my first post was done without checking, hence the edits after I checked, and were based on opinion. After checking, I found out, as in the edits, what the major problem was, was that they weren't supporting it anymore.

As further emphasized in the article you showed me

I will retract my opinion of them stuffing around, because they're actually not doing anything. My apologies. Decide for yourself which is worse.

Yes, everyone's system is different, but at the end of the day, I still think it's a **** move to not bring out the drivers for older cards. Yes, I understand why, don't need to lecture me on that point ;3 I still think it's a **** move.

Especially

ESPECIALLY

With microsoft trying to make this a mandatory upgrade
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#21

Post by Randall »

I am in agreement that this was a dick move by Microsoft. I am not a fanboy of Linux, let's just clear that up but based on the amount of crap I have to deal with, my desktop remains Windows 7, dual boot, and use kubuntu as my primary work environment.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#22

Post by Fluke »

Hargan wrote:All from the article you linked to ;3


Yes, my first post was done without checking, hence the edits after I checked, and were based on opinion. After checking, I found out, as in the edits, what the major problem was, was that they weren't supporting it anymore.

As further emphasized in the article you showed me
Driver support for these products under Windows® 8.1 and Windows® 10 is only available via Windows Update. Please enable Windows Update to allow it to automatically detect and install display driver version 8.970.100.9001
Alternatively:
Fluke wrote:(not like you can't just use a Win8 driver anyway)
Hargan wrote: I will retract my opinion of them stuffing around, because they're actually not doing anything. My apologies. Decide for yourself which is worse.
"Not doing anything"

Another wonderful, baseless claim, made without any evidence. And I even gave you the links, all you had to do was click on them :(

Fluke wrote: 3) "ATI are stuffing around with drivers". A subjective opinion backed by no evidence. One point to disprove that is the massive improvements there have been in AMD drivers since they split the development team off and focused them on driver updates. Here and here.
Hargan wrote: Yes, everyone's system is different, but at the end of the day, I still think it's a **** move to not bring out the drivers for older cards. Yes, I understand why, don't need to lecture me on that point ;3 I still think it's a **** move.
See above + Nvidia dropped support for the Fermi and below a long time ago, Kepler doesn't receive any updates since Maxwell came out. Just because you can download and install a Windows 7 Windows 8 Windows 10 driver doesn't mean it actually does anything for your card other than provide functionality.

Therefore regards to AMD HD4xxx drivers - just download any post 2013 Windows 8 driver.

AMD does a far better job of supporting older graphics cards with actual improvements.

Hargan wrote: Especially

ESPECIALLY

With microsoft trying to make this a mandatory upgrade
[/quote]
Non-sensationalist citation desperately required.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#23

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Fluke wrote:Non-sensationalist citation desperately required.
o.0 They made it free, ie. incentive, they have pop ups all the time, they stopped providing proper support to older versions, it apparently downloads the upgrade in the background anyway (though that might be specific situations). They are trying very hard to make people upgrade.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#24

Post by Hargan »

I realise I need to explain something here:

The updates on the laptop are perfect. They have been for months, will the latest AMD and windows updates.

It's still not helped it working.

None of your articles offered any help beyond upgrade the card, or downgrade the OS.

As stated earlier, the rollback time has passed, and now 10 is firmly stuck, so trying to go back here will cause a lot of info to be lost.

Yes, what I say may be construed as opinion in a lot of places, it comes from dealing with a machine broken by an "upgrade". I put it in inverted commas because a real upgrade owuldn't break the machine. Yes, it's an upgrade to the OS, but a downgrade to the system as a whole (loss of graphics, etc).

So I want to put somethings in a straight-forward manner, so they can't be misconstrued.

The PC is up-to-date in updates
Still not working
AMD's solution is to upgrade the 3d card or rollback the OS. Neither are really feasible due to the loss incurred doing so.
I read through your articles. No solution was found. That's all I'm going to say about them and will hold my tongue.
Microsoft hasn't made this a mandatory update. OPINION: Not for lack of trying

The whole Windows 10 debacle is quite a big one, from spyware to invading Windows 7 and 8. And frankly, I fail to see why anyone needs to upgrade, yet it is being pushed quite ferverantly.

This makes me question what their motives are.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#25

Post by Fluke »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:
Fluke wrote:Non-sensationalist citation desperately required.
o.0 They made it free, ie. incentive, they have pop ups all the time, they stopped providing proper support to older versions, it apparently downloads the upgrade in the background anyway (though that might be specific situations). They are trying very hard to make people upgrade.
I don't really like how they're pushing it so hard on Windows 7 / 8 - but those can be disabled if so desired.

With regards to adverts though;
There hasn't been a single confirmed case of adverts anywhere on Windows 10 that has nothing to do with dodgy third party software or beyond the normal 'getting started'. The only people who are saying Windows 10 does have adverts, are those who have never used Windows 10 (or at least not used it for more than 5 minutes in a computer store) and the ones who write clickbait articles to (ironically) get ad revenue from people. Every article talking about "adverts on Windows 10" don't actually provide any proof of it other than "there is a link to the app store" which is as much of an advert as "App Store" is on iOS, "Google Play" is on Android and "Store" is on Steam.

Hargan wrote:I realise I need to explain something here:

The updates on the laptop are perfect. They have been for months, will the latest AMD and windows updates.

It's still not helped it working.
Well then it's something else, I have another laptop with the same era GPU running Windows 10 since W10 beta just fine. Keep in mind it's a really out-dated GPU, I wouldn't expect to watch even YouTube HD videos properly.

But hey, let's blame the drivers once more!
Hargan wrote: None of your articles offered any help beyond upgrade the card, or downgrade the OS.
... third time's a charm?
Fluke wrote:
Driver support for these products under Windows® 8.1 and Windows® 10 is only available via Windows Update. Please enable Windows Update to allow it to automatically detect and install display driver version 8.970.100.9001
Alternatively:
Fluke wrote:(not like you can't just use a Win8 driver anyway)
Hargan wrote: The PC is up-to-date in updates
Still not working
AMD's solution is to upgrade the 3d card or rollback the OS. Neither are really feasible due to the loss incurred doing so.
I read through your articles. No solution was found. That's all I'm going to say about them and will hold my tongue.
Microsoft hasn't made this a mandatory update. OPINION: Not for lack of trying
Just install a Windows 7/8/8.1 driver, it's the same thing if you can't support features beyond 2013. It's all for Windows NT6.x

Hargan wrote: The whole Windows 10 debacle is quite a big one, from spyware to invading Windows 7 and 8. And frankly, I fail to see why anyone needs to upgrade, yet it is being pushed quite ferverantly.

This makes me question what their motives are.
[/quote]
There is no more invasive "spying" in Windows 10 than there was in Windows 8.1, 8, 7 and Vista to some extent. The only difference is that they're making it known that these things happen. Sensationalist articles lapped it up. One thing lead to another and we are where we are today.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#26

Post by Adagio »

Ad's?
I've been using win 10 since the insider preview came out...
I had one driver issue, but it's been sorted out already...

I've never seen a single ad?

Closest thing to an ad is the store, that might recommend an app you may like...
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#27

Post by Randall »

With regards to "spying"

I think you should forget about what Microsoft can see, and rather worry about what your ISP can see. Certain service providers such as MTN, take a keen interest in those who look at pr0n. They are required by law to log all of this.

Tor Browser is your friend.
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#28

Post by Hargan »

Fluke:
I don't know how to say we've tried every driver out there. Including windows 8.1 drivers. So I'm going to say it like this:

We tried each and every driver. Whether it be legacy or just frakking old :P So to answer your question and your comment that you keep going on about: You name it, we tried it. Not working n.n And that's the issue. None of the driverseseses (note the multiple) available are working.

I do hope that clears that misunderstanding up

Edit: I was wrong in believing that they weren't offering support for the cards, and for that I take the bullet. They have been in their own way, through this legacy method. But, for whatever reason, this system is that 1 in an x where the drivers, system and windows 10 don't co-operate.

In regard to my sensationalistic comments at the end:
Does being open to spyware make it better? Does being honest about it make it any better that it's there? Would Lenovo be cut a break for shipping their stuff with spyware lodged into the bios if they admitted it outright? Sure, the outcry would've been less, but so would've sales. The point I'm trying to get there is that there shouldn't be the spyware to begin with ;3

Ads:
In regards to the ads: Gonna admit; never seen one. But then, I don't update frequently, as noted in first post.

Randall:
Yes, quite aware of the spying that goes on with ISP's. My greatest joy is the knowledge that someone has to look at the stuff I'm looking at :P

Hope you enjoy cataloging bulbapedia's pages whenever I start playing pokemon :P
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Randall
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#29

Post by Randall »

My greatest joy is using the VPN, and my ISP cannot see what's inside the packets...
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Faanvolla
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Re: Nasty Windows 10 creeping into 7 and 8

#30

Post by Faanvolla »

Faanvolla wrote:Only annoying ad I'm getting is the one for Office.
(have a purchased Office 2010 installed)
The attachment 2016-02-07.png is no longer available

There's a setting to turn this off, so now I'm happy again.
2016-03-15.png
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