Computer advice

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Rakuen Growlithe
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Computer advice

#1

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Since I couldn't bring my desktop computer with me overseas in my luggage and shipping it costs a quarter of what I paid for it new I want to buy a new one. I'm fine with using computers but I'm not a hardware expert. Last time I got a computer I just gave Dracius a budget and told him to build me something that could play games. Since that's no longer an option I found a company that builds custom computers. What I need is advice on the hardware I'm putting into it and whether the cost is good.

This is example of what I was going for. It's more expensive than my last PC but should also be a lot more powerful.

AMD FX-6300 Six Core CPU (3.50GHz/8MB CACHE/AM3+)
ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 (DDR3, USB3.0, 6Gb/s)
8GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (1x8GB)
2GB AMD RADEON R7 250X - DVI, HDMI, VGA - DX 11.2
240GB KINGSTON V300 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (450MB/R, 450MB/W)
24X DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER +-R/+-RW/RAM
CORSAIR 550W VS SERIES VS-550 POWER SUPPLY
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD
AOC 23.6" WIDESCREEN LED TFT - 1920 x 1080, 5MS
CM Storm Devastator Keyboard and Mouse

= ~970 € (~R 13 580)

I haven't included a webcam or speakers cause I'll try get those later. Plus the screen has speakers and I have some earbuds but I know there people here that will hate me for suggesting that.
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Re: Computer advice

#2

Post by Sev »

What are you trying to achieve with that PC? If it's gaming, ditch the SSD and get a proper graphics card. Also, a 550W PSU is laughable in this day and age.
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Re: Computer advice

#3

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

I'm not a hardcore gamer but primarily yes. I still enjoy gaming and want to be able to play whatever I want. I don't want to spend on the top range stuff, I'm fine with the mid range and perhaps sacrificing some frame rate for pretty graphics.

Okay, checked and apparently SSD doesn't improve gameplay, just load times. I'll see how that affects price and switching the cost into graphics card. I could go 2GB RADEON R9 270x It's more expensive than I save dropping the SSD but I checked this against the other card and my old pc and it gets a much higher score.

As long as the power supply meets the system demands does it matter?

Darn Dracius did a good job building the last system. Looks impossible to get same power at the same price. >.>

For reference purposes, this is what I had; with the whole system and accessories being built for just under R10 000.

AMD Phenom 2 x4 945, Quad Core, Socket AM3, 3.0Ghz, 8.5Mb Cache, 45nm
2X Dynet 2GB DDR3 Memory, 1333Mhz, CL9, 240-Pin
Asus M4A785TD-M EVO, AMD 785G/SB710 Chipset
Sapphire ATI 5750 Game Edition, 512MB DDR5
Art of Colours 2436Vwh 23.6" LCD Screen, 1920 × 1080, 5MS, HDMI
Seagate 500GB HDD, 7200 RPM, 16MB Cache, SATA 3G
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Last edited by Rakuen Growlithe on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Added an extra paragraph.
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Re: Computer advice

#4

Post by Sev »

Your suggested build is not hugely better than your current one. The graphics card in particular is terrible. Get a R9 270 or GTX 760 or don't bother.
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Re: Computer advice

#5

Post by Fluke »

What's your budget, and where will you be purchasing this from?
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Re: Computer advice

#6

Post by Sev »

Probably Germany.
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Re: Computer advice

#7

Post by Fluke »

Also will you be overclocking at all?
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Re: Computer advice

#8

Post by Fluke »

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A little over budget, but much, much better than what you listed previously.

Case:
KB+Mouse:
DVD writer:
HDD:
W7:
Screen:
RAM:
PSU:
Motherboard:
CPU:
Graphics Card:
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Re: Computer advice

#9

Post by Sev »

I'm not so sure about the PSU. Everything else looks good.
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Re: Computer advice

#10

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Sev wrote:Your suggested build is not hugely better than your current one. The graphics card in particular is terrible. Get a R9 270 or GTX 760 or don't bother.
I see that now. :/ Would've expected hardware to have improved a lot more over the last five or so years that I've had that PC.
Fluke wrote:What's your budget, and where will you be purchasing this from?
I was kinda hoping to keep it close to about R10 000, which is what I paid for the last one but that's not looking too likely. I will only buy in the new year once I get back to Austria.
Fluke wrote:A little over budget, but much, much better than what you listed previously.
Thanks. I will take a look at them. I had seen a cheaper case that I think looked cooler than that one.
I wouldn't be doing any overclocking. I'd be rather nervous about assembling it all myself as well.
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Re: Computer advice

#11

Post by Sev »

Low end hardware tend to stay uniformly sh#te. The performance of modern high end graphics cards, on the other hand is just boggling. The GTX 980 makes the old TITAN look like a toy.
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Re: Computer advice

#12

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Sev wrote:Low end hardware tend to stay uniformly sh#te. The performance of modern high end graphics cards, on the other hand is just boggling. The GTX 980 makes the old TITAN look like a toy.
My old system played everything I asked, although not always on the highest settings. It played the first Crysis on max settings I think, at least until, I think, the final battle with all the water on the ship. Had to turn down to keep playing there. High end cards would be great but I just don't have that sort of money.
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Re: Computer advice

#13

Post by Fluke »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Thanks. I will take a look at them. I had seen a cheaper case that I think looked cooler than that one.
I wouldn't be doing any overclocking. I'd be rather nervous about assembling it all myself as well.
Yeah cases are all about personal taste, just chose a decent one for the price.

Putting together a PC is honestly like lego - it's super easy and there are tons of videos on the web if you get stuck :)

With a R9 280X, You'll be maxing almost everything at 1080p.
Sev wrote:I'm not so sure about the PSU. Everything else looks good.
Yeah 430w is more than enough for that rig. And that PSU is a pretty good model.
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Re: Computer advice

#14

Post by Sev »

Since you've given him a K CPU, the second he starts overclocking he will far exceed that. I think that my CPU (at 4.8 Ghz) pulls close to 200W alone.
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Re: Computer advice

#15

Post by Fluke »

Sev wrote:Since you've given him a K CPU, the second he starts overclocking he will far exceed that. I think that my CPU (at 4.8 Ghz) pulls close to 200W alone.
More like 150w with a massive overclock. Haswell doesn't tend to overclock past 4.6Ghz on a good chip anyway.

150w worst case CPU peak load + 200w worst case GPU peak load + 30w crap = 380w pull which is 88% draw. Not bad for peak load at all.

If you want you can get slightly more wattage; 450w

Which is now 84% load.

550w; 69% peak load


Both would still stay within peak efficiency levels.

Everyone always overrates PSU requirements, it's kinda funny.

Heck, you can run tri-sli GTX980s off of 650w pretty easily.
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Re: Computer advice

#16

Post by Sev »

You're forgetting to take the PSU's efficency into account. Assuming that it is 80% efficient, you only have 360 Watts to draw.
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Re: Computer advice

#17

Post by Fluke »

Sev wrote:You're forgetting to take the PSU's efficency into account. Assuming that it is 80% efficient, you only have 360 Watts to draw.
That's not how efficiency works :p

Hypothetically if you had a 1000w PSU that had 50% efficiency, it would be pulling 2000w from the wall under 100% load. Likewise if it has 80% efficiency it would be pulling 1250w from the wall.

Efficiency now-a-days is merely a selling point, and not really anything useful or a indicator of quality (beyond a rough one).

More information here: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/ ... _jZjmNd7X4
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Re: Computer advice

#18

Post by SnowDragon »

Wow. Remind me to get an efficient PSU if I ever build a desktop again. 2000W = same as our kettle = Huge power bill
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Re: Computer advice

#19

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Fluke wrote:Putting together a PC is honestly like lego - it's super easy and there are tons of videos on the web if you get stuck :)
It's not so much the putting it together that's an issue, although I've looked in my pc and those wires and stuff don't look well labelled. I've fiddled with old computers plenty of times and I put a wlan card into my desktop. But, apart from with the wlan card, it didn't matter if I messed up. When I looked at assembly guides they talk about anti-static mats and wrist straps and make it sound like one slip on the carpet is just gonna blow the whole thing up.

Although on the other hand I don't think I've had a single piece inside of a computer fail on me before. Mice, screens, keyboards, speakers, yes. But I've still got an old 386 that works (I joined that with bits of another one so it's now got two harddrives, both big enough to give a warning when it starts up) and I'm typing this on my latop from probably six years ago (Celeron M 1.6 GHz :().
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Re: Computer advice

#20

Post by Leeward »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:When I looked at assembly guides they talk about anti-static mats and wrist straps and make it sound like one slip on the carpet is just gonna blow the whole thing up.
I've assembled computers myself before (I used to work in a computer shop in high school) and you can safely ignore all that, it works just the same if you assemble it with your bare hands on a metallic table. It would take a ridiculous amount of static (or a storm) to do any lasting damage. Besides, it accumulates with dust anyway.
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Re: Computer advice

#21

Post by Fluke »

Leeward wrote:
Rakuen Growlithe wrote:When I looked at assembly guides they talk about anti-static mats and wrist straps and make it sound like one slip on the carpet is just gonna blow the whole thing up.
I've assembled computers myself before (I used to work in a computer shop in high school) and you can safely ignore all that, it works just the same if you assemble it with your bare hands on a metallic table. It would take a ridiculous amount of static (or a storm) to do any lasting damage. Besides, it accumulates with dust anyway.
This
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Re: Computer advice

#22

Post by Sev »

Just be gentle when inserting the CPU into its socket, else you might end up bending the socket pins.
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Re: Computer advice

#23

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

How important are CPU cores? AMD seems to have more cores in general, which is apparently better for multiple programmes and for programmes that support multiple cores. I had an AMD before so I have some affection for it. It's also a lot cheaper.

The AMD FX-8350 is an 8 core processor and most comparisons put the i5 as a stronger CPU, not all of them and it usually wasn't by much. A major difference was price, with the FX-8350 being about $70 less than the i5.

Related to that, the i5 comes with it's own graphics support. Does that stack with a graphics card or will it just be sitting around doing nothing?
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Re: Computer advice

#24

Post by Sev »

Unless you mess around with Virtualization software - which isn't worth it anyway - it'll just be sitting there.

AMD CPUs have more, but weaker cores. In most situations, that hurts them quite badly. Intel CPUs tend to much better for gaming in particular. My advice is to always go for the highest end i5 CPU, as hyperthreading and the meager additional clock speed for the i7s is also pointless.
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Re: Computer advice

#25

Post by Fluke »

The Intel 4690k is stronger in every aspect compared to Bulldozer/Vishera.

Also those aren't 8 cores, it's basically AMD's version of HT in a very different way. So they share a lot of stuff, which means it doesn't have the same performance as 8 actual real cores.

And no. Integrated graphics does not work at the same time that a dedicated GPU is active.
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Re: Computer advice

#26

Post by Sev »

No, the AMD CPUs actually have 6 and 8 cores...
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Re: Computer advice

#27

Post by Fluke »

Sev wrote:No, the AMD CPUs actually have 6 and 8 cores...
They don't. They're broken up into modules, but are able to be labeled as cores.
I remember all the hype when Bulldozer launched, but quickly people dissected the CPU die shots and saw that the "cores" share cache, pipelines, etc. thus making them not independent and not able to be fully-fledged individual cores. But they still physically exist as individual cores. So basically it means no where near 100% scaling for more cores, as 2 'cores' shares a single cores cache, pipeline, bus, etc. but they can label it as 8 cores.

The first true 8 core consumer grade CPUs are the current gen Haswell 5960x on 2011-3.
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Re: Computer advice

#28

Post by Sev »

Fair enough.
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Re: Computer advice

#29

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Some extra advice needed. I've settled down a bit and am ready to order stuff. I've already done a test order with some cheaper stuff to make sure things don't disappear when I'm not home to receive. :p Anyway I had fully intended to get Windows 7 as I've heard generally negative things about Windows 8. However a few days ago I heard Microsoft has begun dropping the level of support it offers for Windows 7. I'm still not eager to go to 8 but GreenReaper says its technically superior. Do you guys think I should get Windows 8 or rather go with 7 and then see about upgrading once 10 is released?
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Re: Computer advice

#30

Post by Leeward »

Honestly, go with whichever feels nicer to you, because you're the one who is going to have to use it. I prefer 7 personally, but I don't see anything wrong with 8.
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