Do you believe in ghosts?

[YoteFox]

So here's a topic that can potentially be quite fun.

Throughout my life I have been both a believer and non believer in ghosts. I've had the most intense paranormal experiences yet I still tend to believe there is some form of rational explanation about why certain things actually happen.

I watch quite a lot of YouTube videos of bloggers experiencing paranormal activity like Ohmargosh and MoeSargy and the likes and some of the videos you can see are like really fake and staged. There was a specific one where they went to a murder house and you can actually see a person hiding under a black sheet on the roof causing the unexplained paranormal activity. Probably for more views which I can understand, I purely watch Omargosh's videos for the entertainment value because it is entertaining.



But these things aside, there are some real unexplained paranormal activity happening out there in the world and I believe to a degree that ghosts actually do exist, but not in the conventional sense.

Let's take sleep paralysis, certain people firmly believe that you are being suppressed by a succubus or whatever and you can't move because of that. Now there are plenty of scientific explanations for these types of happenings.

Then there is what happened to me on Christmas day, we were casually chatting in the foyer of our house when I saw someone peeking from behind the wall for a split second and when I tried to look again they were gone. I immediately felt an eery presence, I walked down the hall just after that and for some reason one of the potraits inside the guest bedroom where my gran passed was knocked off the wall. Were these related? Possibly. Is there a reasonable explanation for the portrait? Possibly. But what about that figure?

Amityville murder? 112 Ocean Drive

Also this might be subconscious but when I indulge in too much paranormal investigation videos and the likes I get dark and sinister dreams, related? Maybe. paranormal? Maybe not
Anyway I would love to hear some opinions on this

[Rakuen Growlithe]

There are no ghosts. There are no paranormal phenomena. Not only are there rational explanations for most supposed paranormal phenomena but there is no good evidence to support the existence of paranormal phenomena. What we get are subjective, once-off accounts which can not be confirmed and are likely to be wildly inaccurate based on what we know about psychology and people's sensory abilities. Furthermore, given what we do know about the world and what can be tested and used to produce all sorts of technological gadgets that work, there is no space for paranormal phenomena.

[Cape_F0X]

There are no ghosts. There are no paranormal phenomena. Not only are there rational explanations for most supposed paranormal phenomena but there is no good evidence to support the existence of paranormal phenomena. What we get are subjective, once-off accounts which can not be confirmed and are likely to be wildly inaccurate based on what we know about psychology and people's sensory abilities. Furthermore, given what we do know about the world and what can be tested and used to produce all sorts of technological gadgets that work, there is no space for paranormal phenomena.

Then explain this!

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Lavender Town Syndrome.

[Contrast]

The fact that people have been trying to prove the existence of ghosts for centuries without any success is telling enough. If ghosts really were real, they wouldn't even have this sense of mystery about them. They'd just be an accepted part of reality, like radiation or ostriches.

[Galahad]

In short: no.

To be a little more elaborate: I don't currently believe in paranormal phenomena, not because I can definitely and for certain say there is nothing beyond what humans can experience or experience only partially, but because there is no convincing evidence for it. The possibility (however small) might be there - let's say there is a horde of ghosts doing the can-can around me right now that I in no way can sense -, but it's more practical still to stick to 'no'. This is because it is easier to stick to what you know for sure (that I do not see, hear, touch, smell or taste any paranormal phenomena and therefore their existence is not proven), than try and entertain an infinite number of possibilities of what might be.

[YoteFox]

There are no ghosts. There are no paranormal phenomena. Not only are there rational explanations for most supposed paranormal phenomena but there is no good evidence to support the existence of paranormal phenomena. What we get are subjective, once-off accounts which can not be confirmed and are likely to be wildly inaccurate based on what we know about psychology and people's sensory abilities. Furthermore, given what we do know about the world and what can be tested and used to produce all sorts of technological gadgets that work, there is no space for paranormal phenomena.

Absolutely, I both agree and disagree. I'm not over religious myself but I am a Christian of sorts. I do however believe in demons, but ghosts apparently messing with us for fun. I mean I can see entertainment value in that and that's it, most of the paranormal investigators stuff is absolute bullshit xD
Evil is a thing that exists, wether it be the painted picture of a demon or just an evil person.
But I totally agree with your reasoning that it's subjective. I've always felt that humans in general, anything that they don't understand, scares them and is blamed on the unknown be it paranormal or what have you. Take for instance going back in time say the 1800's and show them your cellphone and it would probably be the work of the devil

The fact that people have been trying to prove the existence of ghosts for centuries without any success is telling enough. If ghosts really were real, they wouldn't even have this sense of mystery about them. They'd just be an accepted part of reality, like radiation or ostriches.

It's the same as trying to prove the Lochness monster is real or trying to prove big foot exists, it makes gullible people believers. But for me personally there is a lot of entertainment value to it. It's interesting seeing the lengths people go to to prove these things exists.

In short: no.

To be a little more elaborate: I don't currently believe in paranormal phenomena, not because I can definitely and for certain say there is nothing beyond what humans can experience or experience only partially, but because there is no convincing evidence for it. The possibility (however small) might be there - let's say there is a horde of ghosts doing the can-can around me right now that I in no way can sense -, but it's more practical still to stick to 'no'. This is because it is easier to stick to what you know for sure (that I do not see, hear, touch, smell or taste any paranormal phenomena and therefore their existence is not proven), than try and entertain an infinite number of possibilities of what might be.

But doesn't the idea of a unknown realm of possibilities tickle you in the slightest? It does interest me quite somewhat to think that the "paranormal" experiences could be explained by a number of different factors like per say an alternate dimension or what have you. Which could put an explanation in terms to the perceived paranormal activity. Maybe we just don't understand it yet. But yes I mean certain theories behind "paranormal activity" is quite far fetched and mind numbing for the most xD

Further to elaborate on things is that story of the Mother and her kids being apparently haunted in their house in the UK
The kids actually admitted to faking about 90% of the things going on and they had the people by the edge of their seats. Though there are still some details that go unexplained. Like dogs barking in empty rooms.

[jacojerb]

I believe in ghosts specifically. Logically, they are impossible. I don't even believe in a soul. But, well...

My dad claims to be able to see ghosts. He says it happened a lot more when he was young. The way he talks about it, I'm sure he's being dead serious. He doesn't like talking about it, he says it scares him

He says there are bad ghosts that hurt him. He could sense them before they came. They would physically drain him, making him white faced and weak for days, which no-one could explain at the time.

I don't like talking to him about it. When he does, I can really see how terrified of it he gets. I'm sure he's not lying about it. I know my dad. He never gets more serious than when he talks about it... I really believe him.

He used to work as a paramedic. When he came to the scene, sometimes he would see the ghosts of children, thus knowing they're dead, while the other paramedics were trying to resuscitate them. It's really not a pleasant topic, but I believe him 100%, the way he talks about it...

Logically, I don't want to believe in ghosts. It makes so many implications that go directly against my beliefs. But, I believe my dad and he knows what he saw for most of his life.

[Leeward]

Just because somebody genuinely believes they saw something doesn't mean it was actually there. There's a name for that, it's called a hallucination, and yes they seem very much real to the one experiencing them, but they're still not real.

One should make the distinction between suspension of disbelief and actual belief. The former allows us to enjoy fantasy stories in books and movies with magic and mythical creatures, all the while knowing it's actually not possible. Believing (or wanting to believe) in something supernatural, be it dragons or ghosts, is nothing more than wishful thinking and confirmation bias.

I have personally seen a child make up a rather far-fetched explanation to convince themselves that Santa Claus is real despite having just stumbled across a stash of (children's) toys in their parents' cupboard. How is that any different to trying to "reason" that things like ghosts might be real?

[Contrast]

This thread could do with a poll. Something like "Yes", "No", and "I dunno, maybe?"
Might be interesting to see where the split lies. Is it possible to just add a poll to an already existing thread, or would a new thread need to be created and the posts moved?

[jacojerb]

What my dad saw went on from his early years until into his 30's, as far as I can tell. As I said, I've only ever talked to him a few times about it. Either he's been hallucinating his whole life, or ghosts exist. I choose to believe the latter

[Rakuen Growlithe]

This thread could do with a poll. Something like "Yes", "No", and "I dunno, maybe?"
Might be interesting to see where the split lies. Is it possible to just add a poll to an already existing thread, or would a new thread need to be created and the posts moved?

I can add one if Yotefox is okay with it. Although in many cases, why someone believes something is usually more interesting and informative than what they believe. You can come to the wrong conclusion for the right reasons and vice versa. And even someone who believes the "right" thing but got there for the wrong reason might be despicable. e.g. Someone who believes its wrong to beat children with a lead pipe because they don't like how blood stains look on the furniture.

[Cape_F0X]

[ArtyLoop]

[YoteFox]

This thread could do with a poll. Something like "Yes", "No", and "I dunno, maybe?"
Might be interesting to see where the split lies. Is it possible to just add a poll to an already existing thread, or would a new thread need to be created and the posts moved?

I can add one if Yotefox is okay with it. Although in many cases, why someone believes something is usually more interesting and informative than what they believe. You can come to the wrong conclusion for the right reasons and vice versa. And even someone who believes the "right" thing but got there for the wrong reason might be despicable. e.g. Someone who believes its wrong to beat children with a lead pipe because they don't like how blood stains look on the furniture.

Sure I say go for it, would be interesting to see statistics.

Quite a dark example you got there, but it gets the point across quite well.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Easiest to go for something clear cut. I doubt there are any beating-children-with-a-lead-pipe apologists here.

Also, poll is now added.

[Sudan Red]

I logically know that ghosts don't exist... that doesn't stop my reptilian brain from making me run like a maniac in dark places "just in case". Buuuut that is more an instinct/psychological perception than real proof of paranormal.

[YoteFox]

I logically know that ghosts don't exist... that doesn't stop my reptilian brain from making me run like a maniac in dark places "just in case". Buuuut that is more an instinct/psychological perception than real proof of paranormal.

Yep, I sometimes get that flight reaction too when faced in a particularly scary situation... Such as when I get home late and I sense something in the garden. Needless to say I run like hell

But that's more my brain saying, imminent danger RUN BOY RUN!

[Splicer-Fox]

I wish they were real. That would be cool.

[Animew]

but there is no good evidence to support the existence of paranormal phenomena

the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, FOOL!

hehe, firedog you should know by now that no amount of testing for acidity in soil will ever tell you whether or not someone has aids...
when people test for spirits and stuff they take EMF meters and all manner of electrical things along because it has been a popular assumption that these things give off electrical fields.
so you have a bunch of people looking for faulty wiring inside a house and when they find nothing you say things like:

There are no ghosts. There are no paranormal phenomena.

<w< for someone with such a hardon for science you sure don't seem to be much of a scientist.

If ghosts really were real, they wouldn't even have this sense of mystery about them. They'd just be an accepted part of reality, like radiation or ostriches.

and then what? "oh mah god i has a soul! death is not the end! why do i need all this material junk!? why do i need to work!? fuck i need to live a more spiritual life and concentrate on whats important!"
and WHAM! there goes the economy... fascinating how consumerism and spirituality are so intrinsically linked and how the people with a vested interest in consumerism's success is in a position to influence public opinion to such a great degree...

The fact that people have been trying to prove the existence of ghosts for centuries without any success is telling enough.

remember when people tried to prove that lead in gasoline was harmful for centuries?

its safe to assume they don't exist

eeeeeexactly... its a safe assumption... but its just that, an assumption.

Logically, they are impossible

I logically know that ghosts don't exist

<w< by whose logic?

I have personally seen a child make up a rather far-fetched explanation to convince themselves that Santa Claus is real despite having just stumbled across a stash of (children's) toys in their parents' cupboard. How is that any different to trying to "reason" that things like ghosts might be real?

but lee, we need these little lies to distract us from the big lies like truth and justice.


basically my personal stand point is that for life to work the way it does it would make a lot more sense if there was a soul... since if there wasn't... dafuq would be the point of existence? reality would be wasteful and pointless. i'm not saying it isn't but for practical reasons i'm going to assume it isn't. its again a safe assumption to make. and if there is a soul there might be some way for it to hang about and do the stuff people say ghosts do. hence i'm not going to go around and say ghosts are real but i'm also not going to go around saying they are not real either... because nobody can really know for sure without knowing ALL the things.

[Franky]

No.... but i still wish demon girls existed.

[Animew]

No.... but i still wish demon girls existed.

dude, girls ARE demons!

[Contrast]

No.... but i still wish demon girls existed.

FUCK. YES.

Thanks to centuries of lore, the innate potential for gap moe in demon girls is phenomenal.
Also they're sexy as fuck.

[Adagio]

No.... but i still wish demon girls existed.

dude, girls ARE demons!

Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[FaeMinx]

Yes, and I've interacted with quite a few.

Our dog Midge, when she was put down *at home*, didn't realize she was dead and stayed with us for 2 days before she moved on completely.

Other people in the house could hear her walking on the workshop tiles... So it wasn't only me.
I saw her running up and down the fence as she hadn't done in years... she was like a puppy again.
She came to me in my dreams, and the love in her eyes humbled me... I hope I meet her again, one day... when I also move on from here...

Most recently, my grandmother when she died... I wish I had been with her at the hospital, but her death was so sudden it came as a shock...

My mother told me a piece of their conversation before she slipped away:

Grandmother: "Are there little people here?"

Mom: "Little people? .... .... Are they here to help?"

Grandmother: "... ... ... yes.... ... yes, I think they are."

*sniff*... ; . ; I knew my kin had come to take her away...

Later that night, talking with my mother about the true meaning of her life, and the gift of her message... I saw her face appear. She had become younger, and it grew and grew until it filled the sky... She was saying excitedly to my kin "My grandson gets it! My grandson gets it!"

She was so happy.
I miss her... she had such a beautiful heart... and had become truly selfless by the time she passed...
; . ;

[Galahad]

The post above...

[Animew]

The post above...

UwU/ tisk tisk Galahad... you just galaHAD to be "that guy" didn't you...

everyone was fine being like:

but then you just HAD to be like:

[Galahad]

I am indeed "that guy"; as anyone with a different thought or opinion should be. This being the discussion board means one should speak one's mind, and not be afraid when others speak theirs. Even if the thought is summed up in a Carl Sagan meme.

[Animew]

still, i mean the guy invoked the power of deceased relatives... even i ain't touching a topic after that.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Because someone sees or experiences something is not good evidence. Our senses are notoriously unreliable and our brain is happy to make all sorts of random noise into patterns. Here is an example I just saw recently.

It looks like an image with blue and green hearts. Someone could see that and be convinced that is what they saw. Here's the problem... Both hearts are exactly the same colour! (Well... mostly the same colour, there is a bunch of variation because the image was saved as a jpeg. If it had been png then things would be different.) You can take that image into GIMP, select the heart by colour, invert selection and delete your selection. What is left?

All the hearts will remain because they are all the same colour.