Anti-natalism

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Rakuen Growlithe
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Anti-natalism

#1

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

I'm not sure how many people are aware of it but there are many ethical arguments against having children. Specifically, there is the argument that as long as there are children without families to be adopted then it is immoral to have children instead of adopting. There are also stronger arguments against life at all which were the subject of a book by David Benetar, the head of philosophy at UCT, which I haven't read, although I did see two lectures by him. A brief summary, as I understand it, is that there is far greater misery than joy in life and, on balance, life is negative. In contrast, while not existing is no source of pleasure, it is also the absence of suffering. Since the absence of both suffering and pleasure is neutral whereas a life which is overall contains more suffering than joy is negative, it is better to not exist in the first place. Now he has quite a nice essay which explains this a bit further and makes for really fascinating reading.
David Benetar wrote:A performance at the theatre, for example, might not be bad enough to leave, but if you knew in advance that it would be as bad as it is, you would not have come in the first place.
https://aeon.co/essays/having-children- ... ts-immoral
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Re: Anti-natalism

#2

Post by Splicer-Fox »

Personally im more of a Alan Watts kinda guy.
And for me there is always a 3rd option too a moral/ethical problem.
For instance in stead of asking people not to have children but adopt.
Rather have the orphanage run program that is so effective its better than having parents who are not always perfect.
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Re: Anti-natalism

#3

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

I'm not sure raising kids is all about efficiency. It's about having a family. I'm not sure an orphanage has that same atmosphere and can provide the same sort of support system.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
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Re: Anti-natalism

#4

Post by Animew »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:59 pm Since the absence of both suffering and pleasure is neutral whereas a life which is overall contains more suffering than joy is negative, it is better to not exist in the first place.
but we only gain wisdom through hardship... now before i get accused of talking out my ass:
when we experience something negative we have motivation to seek a solution, forcing us to be creative.
when we experience something positive we repeat our previous actions to achieve the same result and thus achieve nothing new.

as the Buda figured "we suffer because we want". but what would be the point of all this cool stuff in the universe if we didn’t want it? i for one gladly suffer my way to my desires, even tho i know i'll grow tired of it and just want something else later. <w< i'd go as far as saying suffering IS the reason for being alive. (in yo face nihilistic hyena!)

Owo wasn’t this topic about something else tho... like whether or not to have babies... ah yes.
i'll take my rock hard throbbing point and rub it all over the moral dilemma:
who are we to deny our possible children the right to experience their own suffering when we are busy enjoying our suffering right now? i would hence argue its immoral and selfish to NOT have children if you are going to live your life, and if you go and adopt a child instead you only mess around with the suffering of a life you had no part in making... that’s just lazy bro, do your part in the expression of self perpetuating chemical reactions and breed!
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Re: Anti-natalism

#5

Post by Franky »

I don't like talking about this anymore. Upset quite a few furries with it and was the precursor to ending my engagement 5 years ago.

But:
who are we to deny our possible children the right to experience their own suffering when we are busy enjoying our suffering right now? i would hence argue its immoral and selfish to NOT have children if you are going to live your life, and if you go and adopt a child instead you only mess around with the suffering of a life you had no part in making... that’s just lazy bro, do your part in the expression of self perpetuating chemical reactions and breed!
Seriously? You do realise making a child is not rocket science?

Taking care of one and raising him/her to become a successful human being. Yeah lazy... :roll:
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Re: Anti-natalism

#6

Post by Hargan »

Oooh, picky topic n.n

My personal opinion is skewed by the fact that any child I would have would have an abnormally greater than average chance of contracting Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic purpura. Since I wouldn't wish this disease on my worst enemy, there is no way in hell I would wish it on someone I love.

Thus, being unable to take part in genetic procreation, I can see things from a different angle. Childbirth is a very costly, painful and life-changing decision in every way that you can think of, emotionally, physically, etc. Although we have better medicine and technology to prevent it, there are still cases of mothers dying in childbirth, or the children too. So for someone deciding they don't want to go through that, or never having the decision to in the first place, adoption is still a possibility.

Does this mean we should adopt over procreation, as the original topic suggested.

I think, in a situation like this, to force a person into one or the other option, whether claiming ethical standings or health issues is, well, I'm going with the word choice of barbaric. Yes, there are orphans around the world, and yes, adopting them is a good idea. But as studies have shown, in many cases, orphans are not viewed upon like the rest of the children. Now, calm down, firstly, not all families are like this, but go check the stats on how many children are thrown around in foster home systems throughout the world, and ask yourself: Is adoption seen as the same as giving birth to a child? Honestly, I think it is the perceptions of the people which are wrong, and adopted children should be viewed as children. However, considering I know a friend whose adopted mother literally asked him: "Why did I bother adopting you?", well, I think we begin to see the problem.

So, should we adopt over procreation? Not if you're not the right person to adopt. I'd rather see those children go to loving homes than people begrudgingly taking them in, and treating them like dirt. So, unfortunately, my opinion on this discussion boils down to the issue of humans:
Not every human is fit for every role.
As such, we cannot create a catch-all answer, nor can we try to enforce one, no matter what standing or higher ground we choose to call it. At the end of the day, it's about trying to find the right home for the right child, and that is a near impossibility. The best we can do is take stock of our situation, of our own personalities, and come to a decision that will change everyone's life involved.

tl;dr: Can't make an overarching rule, people need to think about adoption and procreation.

Additional extra thought:
While I agree with the person's views as described by Rakuen, I am also a unipolar depressive person right now suffering from thoughts of cutting myself to train myself in order to break through my self-preservation methods so that I can finally slit my wrists and be over and done with life, so maybe he might need to talk to someone.
No, I am not going to be able to achieve this, at least not for a long time.
No, I do not need to be put on a suicide watch.
I'm just pointing out similarities in nihilistic thought patterns...
Warning: Has been known to speak his mind

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Re: Anti-natalism

#7

Post by Franky »

Splicer-Fox wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:52 am Personally im more of a Alan Watts kinda guy.
And for me there is always a 3rd option too a moral/ethical problem.
For instance in stead of asking people not to have children but adopt.
Rather have the orphanage run program that is so effective its better than having parents who are not always perfect.
This is a common, popular and viable engineering approach though it isn't possible from a psychological standpoint.

The benefits can outweigh an average household but all the negative things which comes along not having a healthy family is shown to be much worse. These bad things are shown even in wealthy single parent families with the proper care and nurturing of a child.

If you consider broken families alone it is shown that the children have life threatening challenges to face and the statistics are horrifying:

Depression, dropping out school/collage, crime and all the challenges which follows. It is very common for people to think that the unsuccessful individual had a poor life to start with but it's far from the truth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/

A child's mind is much more sensitive to try and boast a nihilistic approach on why having a family is important. Having proper parental figures in the house develops the brain exactly the way our society accepts and credits the brain.
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Re: Anti-natalism

#8

Post by Animew »

Hargan wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:17 pm I think, in a situation like this, to force a person into one or the other option, whether claiming ethical standings or health issues is, well, I'm going with the word choice of barbaric.
i'd go for "unethical" for comic effect what with the ironic overtones... you know, how it’s unethical to force your ethics on people... the entire concept of ethics is an oxymoron if you ask me. just another way of saying your opinion is better than someone else’s.
Hargan wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:17 pm I am also a unipolar depressive person right now suffering from thoughts of cutting myself to train myself in order to break through my self-preservation methods so that I can finally slit my wrists and be over and done with life, so maybe he might need to talk to someone.
why is it always suicide with you? from now on i'm calling you suicide fox, in fact you should get the admins to change your title thingy to suicide fox. i recall informing you that when you always casually go on about wanting to kill yourself you give people the impression that you are an attention whore... i should know, i AM an attention whore and suicide is like, sooo last century. why don’t you try drawing furry porn instead? it’s pretty much just as unfulfilling but at least you contribute to the debauchery of the internet to some degree.
and what the hell is with the slitting your wrists!? if you're too scared of hurting yourself try some freaking fruit punch spiked with antifreeze, i mean why does it always have to be a big gory spectacle with you people!?
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:56 am Seriously? You do realise making a child is not rocket science?

Taking care of one and raising him/her to become a successful human being. Yeah lazy...
oh? so now something has to be rocket science to be hard work ey? have you ever had a baby? have you ever SEEN someone have a baby!? its called labor for a goddamn reason pal! that "raising someone to be a good human" or whatever IS part of the job even when you have the baby yourself! but if you’re smart you can make that part easy as pie... like for instance giving your child up for adoption and having some other sucker go through all the trouble of raising it... you know, like a mother fucking cuckold bird.

the real hard part is when you contract the STD that makes you swell up with the little tumor in your womb that explodes from your vagina after making your life miserable for nine months and then screams like it was the one who just had their genitals mutilated. THAT is unmistakably the hard part of procreation... and by adopting someone else’s child you pussy out on all that lovely misery! then folks go around with this self righteous notion that they did a child a favor by adopting them... HA! you just went to a goddamn pet store and got yourself a baby human, woopdy fucking doo! and just like with puppies n shit you'll probably throw them away once you've lost interest or they stopped being cute. only difference is that they eventually kill off the animals that don’t get adopted. you know what, they should start doing that with people... we'd have a lot less stray humans on the street biting people and giving everyone aids!
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:31 pmnihilistic
Hargan wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:17 pmnihilistic
Animew wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:26 pmin yo face nihilistic hyena!
oh my, <w< did i accidentally set a trend when i called out Ryall? i'm pretty sure y'all are using the word incorrectly tho. the word suicide fox was looking for was "pessimistic" and bad fox was looking for the word "clinical"... nihilism is actually just a radical form of atheism and has little to do with whether or not someone's views are positive or negative nor does it have much to do with the amount of emotion someone regards something in... Ow</ stay in school kids.
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Re: Anti-natalism

#9

Post by Franky »

Animew wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:00 pm
oh? so now something has to be rocket science to be hard work ey? have you ever had a baby? have you ever SEEN someone have a baby!? its called labor for a goddamn reason pal! that "raising someone to be a good human" or whatever IS part of the job even when you have the baby yourself! but if you’re smart you can make that part easy as pie... like for instance giving your child up for adoption and having some other sucker go through all the trouble of raising it... you know, like a mother fucking cuckold bird.

the real hard part is when you contract the STD that makes you swell up with the little tumor in your womb that explodes from your vagina after making your life miserable for nine months and then screams like it was the one who just had their genitals mutilated. THAT is unmistakably the hard part of procreation... and by adopting someone else’s child you pussy out on all that lovely misery! then folks go around with this self righteous notion that they did a child a favor by adopting them... HA! you just went to a goddamn pet store and got yourself a baby human, woopdy fucking doo! and just like with puppies n shit you'll probably throw them away once you've lost interest or they stopped being cute. only difference is that they eventually kill off the animals that don’t get adopted. you know what, they should start doing that with people... we'd have a lot less stray humans on the street biting people and giving everyone aids!
:lol:

How old are you dude?

I'm actually seriously asking this cause you sound like you just witnessed this in the past week.

Pregnancy =/= disease

And for your information one of my best friends husband died before the birth their son and I was the only one at the hospital during her... C section. ;) Which is a choice in this country at BTW.
and by adopting someone else’s child you pussy out on all that misery!


WTF?

Yeah I want to meet one person who adopted because they pussied out from conceiving a child. :roll:
HA! you just went to a goddamn pet store and got yourself a baby human, woopdy fucking doo! and just like with puppies n shit you'll probably throw them away once you've lost interest or they stopped being cute. only difference is that they eventually kill off the animals that don’t get adopted. you know what, they should start doing that with people... we'd have a lot less stray humans on the street biting people and giving everyone aids!
Nihilism + Sociopathy
Ow</ stay in school kids.
Go back to school kid.
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Re: Anti-natalism

#10

Post by Animew »

Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm Pregnancy =/= disease
Peyronie's Disease =/= disease (its a fucking disorder modern medicine NOOBS!)
pregnancy = tumorous growth on the uterine wall resulting from a vector (sperm) infecting a normally benign egg cell causing it to attach itself to the uterus and leach nutrients from the host’s blood. symptoms include: vomiting, weight gain, depression, mood swings, abdominal pain, incontinence, bodily distention, high blood pressure, bleeding, blood blood blood and DEAAAATH!(zootopia reference in case you missed it)

medically speaking pregnancy classifies as an STD (read the fucking D&D manual on sex bro!), it’s just that the convention of medical classification is surprisingly mostly shaped by popular opinion rather than factuality.
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm I was the only one at the hospital during her... C section
WOW! So you delivered a baby all by yourself! That’s amazing! Are you a wizard?
Lol, so you witness one baby oozing out a stab wound and you presume to be an expert on child birth!?
NYAHAHAHAHAHA!
seriously tho, she didn’t look exhausted afterwards? i mean she only had major surgery right, no bigie. heck and her cut miraculously healed instantly instead of over the course of several weeks!? although what’s a big aching hole in your belly that goes all the way through to your womb anyway? women should man up and stop complaining about that am i right? and man, having a huge distended belly that strains your spine and crushes your insides for months is also easy peasy ain’t it?

...ok i'll stop being sarcastic now...
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm Which is a choice in this country at BTW.
ohohoho, riiiight... a "choice" i'm guessing when you watched your friend having a baby you didn’t see her having the bill? she had medical aid? fuck that would be convenient because holy fuck a cesarean is expensive as fuuuuck. tell me Mr. bad fox, if you choose apple instead of banana and can’t afford apple... is the fact that there was ever a choice in any way relative to reality? not really hey? the choice mostly gets made FOR you by your circumstances so in reality there IS no choice (SURPRISE!)
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm Yeah I want to meet one person who adopted because they pussied out from conceiving a child.
oh that’s easy. but i'd love to meet someone that actually admits to it.
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm Nihilism + Sociopathy
for an old dude you have a real poor grasp of the english language, its: Cynicism and misanthropy
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:31 pm Go back to school kid.
\^w^/ yea! we can go together and get anally raped in a toilet stall while we get addicted to drugs like when we were giddy school girls!
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Re: Anti-natalism

#11

Post by jacojerb »

So, I read most of the start, then started skimming, then started skipping most of the long posts... Sorry if I repeat anything that's been said. On the David Benetar thing, from the first post, it's an interesting point that the world would be better without life. With no experiences, everything is neutral, where with life, there are negative experiences

The thing is, in the eyes of the universe, it's all the same. The neutrality that was before life wasn't somehow stirred just because life developed. Us humans expecially (and more so Western culture) really like thinking "we are the universe". And sure, we are the greatest thing that we know of, but that's all subjective. Objectively, we are just a thing that happened due to a bunch of random events (apologies if you are religious. If believing that you yourself was specifically created adds to your life, good for you).

Have a baby. Don't have a baby. Adopt one. Heck, kill one. The universe doesn't care. Other people will (especially about the killing one. Seriously, don't do that), but if you want to make the "ethical" choice, there isn't one definite choice. It's your life, or maybe you and your partner.

In my own special definition of ethnics, I believe that having a baby is slightly worse than adopting, but compared to the next 20+ years you'll have them, it's irrelevant, just as long as you take care of them...

I'm 20. Some of my friends are having kids. I know they aren't in a position to take care of the kids. In my opinion, the ethical thing to do is to at least wait until you're in a position where you can comfortably affort to take care of the kids...
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Re: Anti-natalism

#12

Post by Leeward »

Nope. Not getting sucked into one of these again.
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Re: Anti-natalism

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Post by Splicer-Fox »

[quote="Rakuen Growlit
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:31 pm The benefits can outweigh an average household but all the negative things which comes along not having a healthy family is shown to be much worse. These bad things are shown even in wealthy single parent families with the proper care and nurturing of a child.

You could create a paradise with realistic android parents.
And they will be exposed to all the best role models that can provided like scientists, leaders and artists.
Their lives will be carefully be crafted by teachers scientists and psychologists to create enhanced human beings with the best childhoods ever!
Although you could then also go the next step and make natural child birth illegal and instead provide designer babies. (I sometimes feel like you need a license to have a child in the first place)

And until we have robot slaves having a large population of dysfunctional people will be needed to do the work nobody else wants to do.
Franky wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:31 pm The benefits can outweigh an average household but all the negative things which comes along not having a healthy family is shown to be much worse.
Do you believe that Buddhists taking children to become monks is child abuse?
I mean surely you could have actors or robots that will make better decisions and put in more effort than “most parents”. It not like the child needs to know the bigger picture yet.
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Re: Anti-natalism

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Post by Franky »

Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am Peyronie's Disease =/= disease (its a fucking disorder modern medicine NOOBS!)
pregnancy = tumorous growth on the uterine wall resulting from a vector (sperm) infecting a normally benign egg cell causing it to attach itself to the uterus and leach nutrients from the host’s blood. symptoms include: vomiting, weight gain, depression, mood swings, abdominal pain, incontinence, bodily distention, high blood pressure, bleeding, blood blood blood and DEAAAATH!(zootopia reference in case you missed it)
So according to you each cell that duplicates in your body are simply tumours without that vector? A fetus is a normal controlled growth. No original function is lost and no dysplasia. Maybe learn a bit what cancers and tumours are.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am medically speaking pregnancy classifies as an STD (read the fucking D&D manual on sex bro!), it’s just that the convention of medical classification is surprisingly mostly shaped by popular opinion rather than factuality.
Medically? Where? pregnancy =/= disease. Thought I made that clear the first time. With your views any thing that the body produces is negative. Is having sperm cells a disease? I believe you probably say the same when a women is on her period? Hell your skin is a growing disgusting duplication of cells. You might want to see a doctor for that!
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am WOW! So you delivered a baby all by yourself! That’s amazing! Are you a wizard?
You have issues dude.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am Lol, so you witness one baby oozing out a stab wound and you presume to be an expert on child birth!?
NYAHAHAHAHAHA!
Considering your posts I can say with certainty that I know more about it than you do so don't make yourself the expert.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am seriously tho, she didn’t look exhausted afterwards? i mean she only had major surgery right, no bigie. heck and her cut miraculously healed instantly instead of over the course of several weeks!? although what’s a big aching hole in your belly that goes all the way through to your womb anyway? women should man up and stop complaining about that am i right? and man, having a huge distended belly that strains your spine and crushes your insides for months is also easy peasy ain’t it?
Such a traumatic event. Jeez I wonder why a person would put themselves through it? :roll:
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am ...ok i'll stop being sarcastic now...
You're poe-ing hard here dude.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am ohohoho, riiiight... a "choice" i'm guessing when you watched your friend having a baby you didn’t see her having the bill? she had medical aid? fuck that would be convenient because holy fuck a cesarean is expensive as fuuuuck. tell me Mr. bad fox, if you choose apple instead of banana and can’t afford apple... is the fact that there was ever a choice in any way relative to reality? not really hey? the choice mostly gets made FOR you by your circumstances so in reality there IS no choice (SURPRISE!)
Or if you didn't want that life changing traumatic few hour event that is the pinnacle of suffering in your opinion. Just uhm... take contraceptives. There are many free condom dispensers in this country.

You also do realise my argument is to choose adoption over having your own kids right? This comes with affording it. If you don't have or can't afford medical aid and conceive you're part of the problem.

Back to choice. Why do you think it is that given the option of an operation many women still choose to give natural birth? I mean the experience alone is in your opinion more effort than the 21 years of responsibility which follows...

Yes childbirth is painful but you're completely missing the mark here.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am oh that’s easy. but i'd love to meet someone that actually admits to it.
So you're a conspiritard?
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am for an old dude you have a real poor grasp of the english language, its: Cynicism and misanthropy
Glad you admit that you're cynical, though I highly doubt that it is based on a intellectual stance. Your responses clearly indicate limited or even missing empathy which screams sociopath. And with such pride in it... I hope you have a wonderful life ahead of you. Misanthropy doesn't have shitty moral decisions like your own considering orphan children. And I quote:
"only difference is that they eventually kill off the animals that don’t get adopted. you know what, they should start doing that with people... we'd have a lot less stray humans on the street biting people and giving everyone aids!"
Again Nihilism and sociopathy.
Animew wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am \^w^/ yea! we can go together and get anally raped in a toilet stall while we get addicted to drugs like when we were giddy school girls!
All professionalism is lost in this discussion.
Splicer-Fox wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 am You could create a paradise with realistic android parents.
And they will be exposed to all the best role models that can provided like scientists, leaders and artists.
Their lives will be carefully be crafted by teachers scientists and psychologists to create enhanced human beings with the best childhoods ever!
Although you could then also go the next step and make natural child birth illegal and instead provide designer babies. (I sometimes feel like you need a license to have a child in the first place)

And until we have robot slaves having a large population of dysfunctional people will be needed to do the work nobody else wants to do.
That's a good piece of fiction for the year 2530. The other issue with it is even if it can be created convincing enough so that the children raised by these androids will fit into society, who pays for it?
Splicer-Fox wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 am Do you believe that Buddhists taking children to become monks is child abuse?
My stance on religion is that it in itself is child abuse.
Splicer-Fox wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 am I mean surely you could have actors or robots that will make better decisions and put in more effort than “most parents”. It not like the child needs to know the bigger picture yet.
Or promote adoption. No acting and excessive finances required.
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Re: Anti-natalism

#15

Post by Splicer-Fox »

I guess at the end of the day we are talking about how we would have liked to be raised.
The Matrioshka brain seems to be the answer to end them all. (Digital family for me please – among other things :3)

Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm That's a good piece of fiction for the year 2530. The other issue with it is even if it can be created convincing enough so that the children raised by these androids will fit into society, who pays for it?
“Post scarcity society” or maybe those 1st world countries spending some of that military budget on kids.
Instead if professorial killers they can train the workers for a children adoption program.
Splicer-Fox wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 am My stance on religion is that it in itself is child abuse.
But do you believe that the children are happy though? - they will be very important people to the communities.
Do you dislike Jedi in that case?
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Hargan
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Re: Anti-natalism

#16

Post by Hargan »

Animew wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:00 pm
Hargan wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:17 pm I am also a unipolar depressive person right now suffering from thoughts of cutting myself to train myself in order to break through my self-preservation methods so that I can finally slit my wrists and be over and done with life, so maybe he might need to talk to someone.
why is it always suicide with you? from now on i'm calling you suicide fox, in fact you should get the admins to change your title thingy to suicide fox. i recall informing you that when you always casually go on about wanting to kill yourself you give people the impression that you are an attention whore... i should know, i AM an attention whore and suicide is like, sooo last century. why don’t you try drawing furry porn instead? it’s pretty much just as unfulfilling but at least you contribute to the debauchery of the internet to some degree.
and what the hell is with the slitting your wrists!? if you're too scared of hurting yourself try some freaking fruit punch spiked with antifreeze, i mean why does it always have to be a big gory spectacle with you people!?
Don't be a dick about this. Seriously. You don't like it, just ignore me. The point I was trying to confer was regarding similarities in nihilistic thinking and depressive thinking; don't go round encouraging people with depression.

Although I am sorry if my frankness did upset anyone. Social constraints aren't my forte
Warning: Has been known to speak his mind

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Galahad
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Re: Anti-natalism

#17

Post by Galahad »

Filthy Septim-Loving Heathen wrote:My stance on religion is that it in itself is child abuse.
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Animew
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Re: Anti-natalism

#18

Post by Animew »

holy fuck franky i hit a nerve or something?
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm So according to you each cell that duplicates in your body are simply tumours without that vector? A fetus is a normal controlled growth. No original function is lost and no dysplasia. Maybe learn a bit what cancers and tumours are.
ugh, your own cells don’t have a completely different set of DNA like a fetus does now does it? it’s a foreign body contracted from sex, using your body as a food source just like any other parasite and hence classifies as an STD. do you consider worms "a normal controlled growth" inside your body just because they circumnavigate your immune system too? how about aids? i mean just look how perfectly they are able to infiltrate white blood cells, almost like they belong there right? never took you for a hippy man, just because something is natural doesn’t mean it’s not harmful.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm pregnancy =/= disease. Thought I made that clear the first time.
you are still just as wrong as you were the first time.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm Is having sperm cells a disease? I believe you probably say the same when a women is on her period? Hell your skin is a growing disgusting duplication of cells. You might want to see a doctor for that!
now you're just being silly.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm You have issues dude.
tee-hee! you think? a bit slow on the uptake aren’t you?
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm I can say with certainty that I know more about it than you do
you presume much.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm You're poe-ing hard here dude.
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Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm in your opinion.
bitch the fuck you know bout my opinion? you are quick to point out that i'm "poe-ing" yet you presume to know my opinion?
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm There are many free condom dispensers in this country.
NYAHAHAHAHAAA! oh hey you're right there IS always a choice! but everyone knows that brand of condom ALWAYS breaks.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm I mean the experience alone is in your opinion more effort than the 21 years of responsibility which follows...
again with the telling me what my opinions are... look bub, does having the experience of pooping out a baby yourself make you exempt from having to raise it? no... so OBVIOUSLY when you have to have the baby yourself there IS more effort involved... any of this getting through?
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm So you're a conspiritard?
so you're a retard?
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm Again Nihilism and sociopathy.
repetition does not suddenly make your use of the words any less wrong.
Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:49 pm All professionalism is lost in this discussion.
so a guy who's only rebuttals are assumptions about my opinions and assertions about my beliefs/state of mind is proclaiming that there was ever any professionalism in this discussion? Owo now there’s a level of delusional you don’t see every day.
Splicer-Fox wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 am I sometimes feel like you need a license to have a child in the first place
\OwO/ i know right! you can’t buy a television without a license but you can create a fucking human being without so much as grade seven!? what is up with that? capitalism trumps common sense yet again.
Miss Derpy Moo wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:20 am Nope. Not getting sucked into one of these again.
<w< you know you want to... I mean just LOOK at all that stuff you disagree with… isn’t it just mouthwateringly tempting to correct all this bad reasoning?
Hargan wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:43 pm don't go round encouraging people with depression.
then don’t go threatening people’s lives in public (even when it’s your own). i'm sorry for being so harsh bro, but you do seem to need a nudge out of your comfort zone. I barely know you and i don’t want you to die, how do you think it makes the people who actually know you feel when you say things like this. they WANT to help you but cant, only you can help you. i'd offer to take you out for a drink and some general cheering up but you'll just slide back into depression of you don’t change your surroundings.
Duck face? i thought they were all just making fart noises when posing for pictures...
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Franky
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Re: Anti-natalism

#19

Post by Franky »

Why are you continuing to argue then if you're just trying to be satirical? Nothing in all of that is even worth a debate so please stop.
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Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Anti-natalism

#20

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Don't have that much time to address everything here yet but Animew, stop trolling my thread. Especially when you're making hurtful comments towards other users.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
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Galahad
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Re: Anti-natalism

#21

Post by Galahad »

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Animew
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Re: Anti-natalism

#22

Post by Animew »

Franky wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:47 pm Why are you continuing to argue then if you're just trying to be satirical?
i put forward a legitimate counter argument against adoption, that is all. its not my fault you fell for my obnoxious tone and chose to go after me instead of my argument.
Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:42 am Animew, stop trolling my thread.
not trolling your thread, just franky and he asked for it with the whole "i don’t like talking about this" *talks about it at length anyway* tureen. pro tip: proclaiming how much a topic triggers you right before talking about it is like a zebra going up to a lion, stabbing itself in the hind leg and going "gee, i hope there are no lions around to take advantage of my fucked up leg"
Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:42 am Especially when you're making hurtful comments towards other users
yea i might have over reacted to Hargan's veiled cry for help, i just get a tad upset at the prospect of people I know dying unnecessarily.



tell you what fire dog, i'll just give my personal opinion on the matter then leave it alone m'kay? kinda boring if you ask me but it seems to be the norm:

i'd personally not have children, adopted or otherwise. not because of moral reasons, i just don’t like kids... especially babies... yeug! and i don’t really care what other people do either, it’s their lives and it don’t affect me. folks should mind their own business, i mean would you go nag a gazelle about how amoral it is to have a baby in a predator infested world? especially when there are baby gazelles who's mothers have been eaten? perhaps, but you would be just as successful at nagging humans about it... it’s the circle of life people, it doesn’t care about your concepts of logic and reason. besides its been successfully doing its thing for a very long time so why not just let it be and apply your opinions to your own life?
Duck face? i thought they were all just making fart noises when posing for pictures...
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Re: Anti-natalism

#23

Post by Splicer-Fox »

Ah man! Now this topic is going to get locked too :(
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Galahad
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Re: Anti-natalism

#24

Post by Galahad »

Obviously Isn't In The Thieves Guild wrote:Now this topic is going to get locked too
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Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Anti-natalism

#25

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

The New Yorker did a profile of David Benetaar: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/perso ... being-born
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
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