Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
- Sudan Red
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Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Whoa... I stumbled across this thread on my Twitter timeline this morning.
Do you folks think this is justifiable backlash or people overreacting? Personally, I agree that this is a known horror movie trope, and that the kind of asylums like the one suggested by the theme does NOT exist anywhere outside of the trope any more (at least not in a developed country like the US). I have visited Weskoppies as part of my training and even the worst wards are not as horrific as the horror movie-type asylum. They are by no means pleasant places and I would never want to end up in them - not even the "nice" wards - but I can make a distinction between the reality and the fantasy of the concept.
As a Halloween con, I expect Furpocalypse to have theme that would horrify its patrons. To challenge their safe spaces in a "safe way". And let's face it, any Halloween/horror theme would be unacceptable for a subsection of the population, due to the classic themes associated with the holiday (death, ghosts, demons, monsters etc).
The reaction to this theme though makes me feel like I should be as offended by a "Mad Scientist" theme, because I am a scientist. Or that because people I loved & known have died, I should be offended by a "Zombies" theme.
Where does one draw the line? What are your thoughts on this?
Do you folks think this is justifiable backlash or people overreacting? Personally, I agree that this is a known horror movie trope, and that the kind of asylums like the one suggested by the theme does NOT exist anywhere outside of the trope any more (at least not in a developed country like the US). I have visited Weskoppies as part of my training and even the worst wards are not as horrific as the horror movie-type asylum. They are by no means pleasant places and I would never want to end up in them - not even the "nice" wards - but I can make a distinction between the reality and the fantasy of the concept.
As a Halloween con, I expect Furpocalypse to have theme that would horrify its patrons. To challenge their safe spaces in a "safe way". And let's face it, any Halloween/horror theme would be unacceptable for a subsection of the population, due to the classic themes associated with the holiday (death, ghosts, demons, monsters etc).
The reaction to this theme though makes me feel like I should be as offended by a "Mad Scientist" theme, because I am a scientist. Or that because people I loved & known have died, I should be offended by a "Zombies" theme.
Where does one draw the line? What are your thoughts on this?
- Galahad
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
I think it is simply virtue signalling. There are countless other objects and institutions that have grim histories behind them but are used every day with no repercussions. Fishermen use the same noose knots that people were hanged on, for example. In the theme of Halloween, you will often see iron maiden decorations and other torture devices that, unlike asylums, were always used for torture because that was their very purpose. Yet rarely does anybody question them.
Given that mental illness does actually occur more frequently in the furry fandom than in the general population, people being offended by an asylum or mental hospital theme is more likely. But that does not make it any more valid, in my opinion. If anything, I'd be willing to wager that many of those lashing against it have not actually set foot in a mental hospital but are simply trying to prove how heroic or progressive they are.
If you don't like it? Don't attend it. The entire theme is horror - it is to be provocative and scary, not to make you feel all warm, safe and cuddly. It would be like going to a brothel and demanding chastity. You're in the wrong place, mate.
Given that mental illness does actually occur more frequently in the furry fandom than in the general population, people being offended by an asylum or mental hospital theme is more likely. But that does not make it any more valid, in my opinion. If anything, I'd be willing to wager that many of those lashing against it have not actually set foot in a mental hospital but are simply trying to prove how heroic or progressive they are.
If you don't like it? Don't attend it. The entire theme is horror - it is to be provocative and scary, not to make you feel all warm, safe and cuddly. It would be like going to a brothel and demanding chastity. You're in the wrong place, mate.
- Ryall
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
That Nidoqueer character certainly loved making the issue about himself. Now nobody can enjoy that horror theme because he *has* to attend, and there is *no way* he can have the strength of character to overlook the fact that the theme isn't gloryfying mistreatment of mental illness - it's villifying it - and it's not ridiculing anyone.
Let's try a thought experiment alright? Let's pretend for a second that cancer and motor accidents were mainstream horror themes, for some contrived reason. Those are topics that hit close to home for one. Worst case scenario, one, in that position, would decide, "one is not going to attend because it's a sensitive topic for one; one will find another source of entertainment for Halloween - another party perhaps; and one will let the others have their fun, which one knows is not meant to hurt or ridicule anyone. Next year's Halloween theme will be a different
One is also rational, and realizes the emotional cost of starting a big fight over theme for this party - to oneself and others - outweighs the emotional benefits."
There's no need to create such animosity over this given the intention behind it, or how easily avoidable it is.
But yes, I agree with both of you.
Let's try a thought experiment alright? Let's pretend for a second that cancer and motor accidents were mainstream horror themes, for some contrived reason. Those are topics that hit close to home for one. Worst case scenario, one, in that position, would decide, "one is not going to attend because it's a sensitive topic for one; one will find another source of entertainment for Halloween - another party perhaps; and one will let the others have their fun, which one knows is not meant to hurt or ridicule anyone. Next year's Halloween theme will be a different
One is also rational, and realizes the emotional cost of starting a big fight over theme for this party - to oneself and others - outweighs the emotional benefits."
There's no need to create such animosity over this given the intention behind it, or how easily avoidable it is.
Iron Maidens are fictional torture devices, so why do we act as if they were real? I questioned it. GG no re!Galahad wrote:...you will often see iron maiden decorations and other torture devices that, unlike asylums, were always used for torture because that was their very purpose. Yet rarely does anybody question it...
But yes, I agree with both of you.
Last edited by Ryall on Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hahaha!
- Galahad
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Huh. You learn something new every day.Ryall wrote:Iron Maidens are fictional torture devices, so why do we act as if they were real? I questioned it.
- Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Yup. Virtue signalling is pretty much and it's pretty pathetic.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
While the haunted asylum theme doesn't bother me much, I can see why it would bother others. Mental institutions are terrifying places, and it is very possible to get "trapped" in one. Not that long ago many of us in the fandom would have been institutionalised for one reason or another.
But either way, the solution is fairly obvious. If it bothers you, mention your concerns to the organisers, if they do nothing, then don't go. A dip in attendees will say more to the organisers of an event than all the social media outrage in the world.
But either way, the solution is fairly obvious. If it bothers you, mention your concerns to the organisers, if they do nothing, then don't go. A dip in attendees will say more to the organisers of an event than all the social media outrage in the world.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here.
Backpackcat. Enby, they / them. Telegram and Twitter: @Darq_At
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- Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
That is true but lots of things can bother others but that is no reason for them to not be a part of Halloween. Halloween is all about death and the dark and scary things that haunt our minds. They are not things that are usually pleasant but we have to learn to face them.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
- Sudan Red
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
I think we're back at the "if content offends me, such content should be made inaccessible to EVERYBODY", which is a strange concept.
Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example) while some content will be offensive due to your own experiences (eg actually being locked up and mistreated in an asylum therefore all mention of asylums will offend you).
A personal example of above - I haaaaaate CNA and do not so much as set foot in one after the horrible way a CNA manager treated me when my phone was stolen in her store. I actually go so far as to wait outside should the person I am shopping with go into CNA. Do I stop the person from shopping there? Do I picket outside CNA to protest the shitty security measures they have in their stores? No. I just do not support them any more.
Money talks. If enough people boycott Furpocalypse, they will have to seriously rethink their themes in future. If however, we are dealing with very vocal but tiny minority... well...
Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example) while some content will be offensive due to your own experiences (eg actually being locked up and mistreated in an asylum therefore all mention of asylums will offend you).
A personal example of above - I haaaaaate CNA and do not so much as set foot in one after the horrible way a CNA manager treated me when my phone was stolen in her store. I actually go so far as to wait outside should the person I am shopping with go into CNA. Do I stop the person from shopping there? Do I picket outside CNA to protest the shitty security measures they have in their stores? No. I just do not support them any more.
Money talks. If enough people boycott Furpocalypse, they will have to seriously rethink their themes in future. If however, we are dealing with very vocal but tiny minority... well...
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- Light-footed
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Halloween has become grossly commercialized! We shouldn't try to buy others affection. Remember it's about spending time with those you truly love. So more couples and group costumes!
- Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
~John Stuart Mill~
“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
- Sudan Red
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
So you find it objectionable to put babies in blenders?Rakuen Growlithe wrote:o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
- Ryall
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Let's call it, "distasteful."Sudan Red wrote:So you find it objectionable to put babies in blenders?Rakuen Growlithe wrote:o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
Hahaha!
- Sudan Red
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Are you... triggered?Ryall wrote:Let's call it, "distasteful."Sudan Red wrote:So you find it objectionable to put babies in blenders?Rakuen Growlithe wrote:o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
You can't tell someone to not be offended by something. It offends them. It isn't "wrong", it just "is". They can't demand the world change to not offend them, but likewise you cannot demand they not be offended.
Some people who didn't like the theme spoke up, the theme stuck, and now some people aren't going to attend because of it. Honestly that's exactly how things should go.
There is more to this story though, someone got banned for complaining about the theme?
Wait. Different argument?
Some people who didn't like the theme spoke up, the theme stuck, and now some people aren't going to attend because of it. Honestly that's exactly how things should go.
There is more to this story though, someone got banned for complaining about the theme?
I mean as long as you eat what you kill, it's more humane than a lot of farms, and...Sudan Red wrote:So you find it objectionable to put babies in blenders?Rakuen Growlithe wrote:o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
Wait. Different argument?
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here.
Backpackcat. Enby, they / them. Telegram and Twitter: @Darq_At
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- Ryall
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
I think Darq, the issue is that those few kicked up such a fuss, and for what? Was this really a cause worth fighting for? They upset themselves and others, and achieved nothing. As you say: offense doesn't count for much.
How do you get three in a bucket? With a blender. How do you get three out of a bucket? With Doritos.
Hehehe!Sudan Red wrote: Are you... triggered?
How do you get three in a bucket? With a blender. How do you get three out of a bucket? With Doritos.
Hahaha!
- Sudan Red
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Yeah they changed their badge name to something like "Glorifying mental illness" or something (please don't quote me... too lazy to go find the actual ref) after being very vocal about the theme from the start. They were basically that kid in class that was so disruptive that the teacher ignored them to get on with class but it just made them act out more to get attention. I think Furpocalypse then made the decision to refund this person because they were obviously not going to find middle ground.Darq wrote:There is more to this story though, someone got banned for complaining about the theme?
Bwahahaha!Darq wrote:I mean as long as you eat what you kill, it's more humane than a lot of farms, and...Sudan Red wrote:So you find it objectionable to put babies in blenders?Rakuen Growlithe wrote:o.o I think the problem there is not that it's objectionable to people but that you are putting babies in blenders.Sudan Red wrote:Some content is objectively objectionable (liiiike putting live babies in blenders for example)
Wait. Different argument?
Eeeeewww... now *I* am triggered!Ryall wrote:Hehehe!
How do you get three in a bucket? With a blender. How do you get three out of a bucket? With Doritos.
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Re: Furpocalypse - The Haunted Asylum
Oooh, a haunted asylum theme. I love it!
Really, nothing freaks me out quite as much as a haunted asylum. I think in this age, where so many of us are questioning our own mental state, that so many of us have a sort of soft spot for asylums. Really, that's a brilliant theme! Congrats to them
But people got offended? Oh no. I hate it when that happens. Especially furries. When furries get offended, it's borderline furry drama
Oh well. Their complaints are only amplified by people discussing it. We really shouldn't even be worrying about them.
I love games. And, so far, the most scared I've ever been in any game was the haunted asylum level in Thief. Such a creepy atmosphere. Had to keep pausing the game every two minutes just to regain my composure
The goal of horror is to play off people's fears. A mental asylum is a natural thing to fear. Saying that it's "too close to home" is really complimenting the horror, not complaining.
Really, nothing freaks me out quite as much as a haunted asylum. I think in this age, where so many of us are questioning our own mental state, that so many of us have a sort of soft spot for asylums. Really, that's a brilliant theme! Congrats to them
But people got offended? Oh no. I hate it when that happens. Especially furries. When furries get offended, it's borderline furry drama
Oh well. Their complaints are only amplified by people discussing it. We really shouldn't even be worrying about them.
I love games. And, so far, the most scared I've ever been in any game was the haunted asylum level in Thief. Such a creepy atmosphere. Had to keep pausing the game every two minutes just to regain my composure
The goal of horror is to play off people's fears. A mental asylum is a natural thing to fear. Saying that it's "too close to home" is really complimenting the horror, not complaining.
Mew?