Theory about friends and Internet friends

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Hargan
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Theory about friends and Internet friends

#1

Post by Hargan »

So... I think I finally understand something fascinating. I write this half asleep from anxiety and flu, so I apologise if I need to clarify later.

I was watching a random video, can't even remember what it was, and it was talking about how in the digital age, people are having less and less strong friendships and lasting relationships, most notably the newer generations. When I heard that, I thought to myself: Okay then, that sounds like me, pushing people away when I no longer need them.

Except for one very small factor: With the exception of mates, that is a whole kettle of fish, I've never actually pushed away my core good friends. I still try stay friendly and friends with those that I know from offline. Why am I able to.... no why do I define them differently in my own mind? Why are ones literally precious to me, and others so freely discardable?

And I hate to say this, but... Friends online aren't the same level of people as friends offline. Now I'm not saying that they can never be, but online friends well.... let's just say, when I was trying to commit suicide a few years back, the only ones who were trying to stop me were offline friends, because the online ones weren't online. Unlike offline friends, online friends are only there for a fraction of time, during which they are your friends. But when they're not online, they're not there for support or talking or any of that. They simply cease to exist, no matter how much you need to talk to them.

This realisation actually has helped me, because I've removed a lot of the burdens and demands I placed on these friends, and shifted it to people who actually can and do help. I've moved from thinking online people could replace offline ones with their convenience, to understanding that offline ones are, in general, just more avaialable and more there, actually in person with you.

So, what can I say? I've learned what we've all known for years: the best friend is someone you can go hang out with and do things.

Now, I'm not saying anything about mates or boyfriends or anything, but I am just putting this out in the friends category, so when replying, please don't counter with anything regarding meeting your mate online. Sure, I'm happy for you, but what about the rest of your friends? Surely you don't only have one.

So yes, that's my findings. Please enjoy and lemme know your comments
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#2

Post by Sudan Red »

I don't know you from a bar of soap, but what I've gathered from your posts is that you (specifically) place a lot of emphasis on other people and take less responsibility for situations yourself.

I dare say that my online friends know more about me & my intetests than my offline friends. For instance, none of my offline friends know that I can draw. It seems silly, but it isn't like I sit around drawing when I kuier with them. Yet this is a very integral part of me that they don't know about.

Offline friends can be equally absent from one's life which may hurt more. My bestie is currently getting married and all she ever talks about is wedding things. And BORING wedding things... like... whether the decor should be navy or royal blue. So she's here, but not HERE. If we do something, it is wedding related. If we have a conversation, it turns to her wedding. If she is having an off day, it is because she can't find specific socks for the groomsmen. Before she met Mr Right, we did a shedload of things together (Neon Run, Colour Run, music festivals, shows etc). As soon as Mr Right showed up, that stopped abruptly. She never had time for me any more.

BUT all of this is an understandable part of life. I have cut plenty of friends (online and offline) out of my life once our paths have diverged sufficiently. People grow apart and that is okay. Interests change. Personal agendas change. If you think that YOU are your friends' (online or offline) sole worry in life, you are very likely in for a huge disappointment. It isn't your friends' (online or offline) purpose in life to keep you happy and/or alive (as you mentioned in your other thread).

You seem only concerned with a person's usefulness to you. What are YOU doing for your friends (online & offline)?
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#3

Post by Hargan »

Sudan Red wrote:What are YOU doing for your friends (online & offline)?
I have asked that exact same question to other people. They give me a lot of different answers, half of them I usually disagree with, so I actually don't know, but apparently they find something in me.

As my one friend put it: It's not up to me to find why a person should like me, it's up to them.

So in answer to your question: no clue. It might have to do with the fact that I drop all personal things to help others in need, it might have to do that I can be pleasant to be around when I'm not in these phases, it might have something to do with the fact that we share common interests. I don't have an answer for you. But, and the question I return to you is: Am I the one you should be asking, or should you be asking people who know me?

Otherwise, yesI agree offline friends disappear and come and go, I have not kept up with anyone from my school days. The point I was trying to get at is that if you put all your effort into one type of friend, in my case online, you will lose all the benefits of the other kind. Each kind needs to be handled differently, and in my case, I have found that by applying all the things that I expect of offline friends to online ones was a terrible mistake. I ended up in a situation with a support group I could not do anything with, because I could not interact with them fully.

Finally, as for my writings here, a lot of them or more cold reasoning and negative feelings because I've not even dealt with my father's death, 9 months ago. Still unemployed. I've tried everything I can, I am just getting nowhere, and my bf is moving away. So if I feel negative or my emotions are removed from writing, it's because they are such. Other people who have known me fom earlier times report me as a more caring, considerate, kind and altruistic to a fault kind of person. Maybe those who knew me back then, hold onto me know in the hope that this phase will pass, and I may return as much as I can to who I was before. Maybe they understand that i'm jsut going through a rough patch. Maybe this is what a friend is. I don't know, all I know, is I could not do without my friends, and that I also need to spend more time with some of them, and have started making moves to do so, all because I realised I could not replace a real hug with *hug*.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#4

Post by Galahad »

Hargan wrote:As my one friend put it: It's not up to me to find why a person should like me, it's up to them.
Whether online or offline, people can only react to what you decide to put forward - your habits, interests, attitude, integrity and behaviour. If you keep them sealed up and shut yourself away from the world, for example, it is not owed to you (or to anyone else) for others to dig and mine through thick layers of withdrawal and self-isolation to get to the real you. A close and caring friend might try, but you cannot expect that of everyone around you. Similarly, if you wear a mask and pretend to be something you are not, you will attract and repel others based on that lie, and the people who stay with you may not be the people you really want.

People can only find reason to like you (which is indeed their choice - no-one has to like anyone else) if you put out a reason for them to. And you alone choose what that reason is. They simply choose how they react to that reason.

So perhaps, instead of generalizing and complaining and lumping friends into categories, re-examine perhaps why you have suffered these negative experiences, and seek to change positively that which you do control: what people observe, see and hear of you. You cannot make a friend of everyone, but you might be painting those who would make fantastic friends with the same brush of pessimism as those who would not, simply because you are being passive and expecting people to come to you.

If you are feeling down and no-one seems to care, muster the willpower to send someone you know and trust a message: "Hey. I hope you are alright. May we please talk? I am really not feeling well, and I would appreciate it if we could just talk so I can get something off my chest." One might be surprised how some people react compassionately and caringly to a message like that, even when one thought they did not care because they did not approach you first.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#5

Post by Animew »

Ծ_Ծ

there will come a time where you read through this and feel shame... such utter shame...

i figured we covered this last time but much in the same way i can’t ignore someone standing in waist deep water yelling: "halp i'm drowning" i can’t ignore this, for its basically the same thing...
you'll never find what you’re looking for in other people... in fact you'll never find it anywhere because it doesn’t exist.
Hargan wrote:all I know, is I could not do without my friends
friends are like social pacifiers, they are convenient comfort but essentially just a lie, i'd recommend you not get too dependent.

as i have said before, sort out your life (/<w<)/ if your environment is conducive to the SAD then you won’t be rid of it regardless of the number of friend bandaids you apply.

i speak from experience bro, tiz not like i'm trying to judge. the time i wasted asking for help could have been used helping myself instead.
Galahad wrote: If you are feeling down and no-one seems to care, muster the willpower to send someone you know and trust a message: "Hey. I hope you are alright. May we please talk? I am really not feeling well, and I would appreciate it if we could just talk so I can get something off my chest." One might be surprised how some people react compassionately and caringly to a message like that, even when one thought they did not care because they did not approach you first.
<w< hehe, silly raptor... then what? he tells someone how sad he is and why then they go "oh, poor you. don’t worry it'll get better. I’m here for you *hug*" or something like that. what does that accomplish? he'll probably just go "aw snap! i don’t feel any better... must have been a dud friend, better look for a better one."

(゚ヮ゚)/ only person that can help you is you! the sooner folks realize that the sooner they'll get over what’s ailing them.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#6

Post by Galahad »

Animew wrote:<w< hehe, silly raptor... then what? he tells someone how sad he is and why then they go "oh, poor you. don’t worry it'll get better. I’m here for you *hug*" or something like that. what does that accomplish? he'll probably just go "aw snap! i don’t feel any better... must have been a dud friend, better look for a better one."
Slippery slope fallacy. I thought you'd know better than that, Animew. ;)
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#7

Post by Animew »

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ hey, the above probabilities don’t seem all that improbable if you read this guys previous posts on friends and support and how he feels on people telling him they are there for him. in all probability he has asked someone for help and discussed the problem with them only to be disappointed in how unhelpful it was.

in fact, internet friends are better for discussing your true feelings because they are disposable so if they happen to go: "ermegerd! dewd, you so fucked up!" then you just drop the identity when there are enough people that hates you to make drama for you... so essentially you can discuss anything with online friends unlike real life friends who know your face, real name and who knows what other deets... discussing your true feels with your IRL friends is a sure fire way to fuck up your personal life.

the sad reality about friends are that they are just in it because they get something from you. i mean at first reading Hargan going on about how these friends are more useful than others you think to yourself "OMG! what a fucking sociopath!" but you know what, at least he is honest about it. no one is friends with someone out of some selfless reason, we make friends because they have benefits.

now that that’s cleared up: once the responsibilities outweigh the benefits we dispose of friends, unless the benefits are worth sticking it out for.

so to Hargan i pose the question: are there any friends that get enough benefit from you to justify them dropping everything and try to solve your problem?
it’s a simple question so don’t say you don’t know, if there were you'd know so if you don’t know let’s just assume that’s a no.

so if by this simple reasoning it’s safe to assume there's no one going to be willing to help... (/<w<)/ why even bother pondering the question if there will be anyone ABLE to help?

once all the frilly froo froo nonsense of friendship love and empathy gets washed away by a nice cold shower of reality, what’s left?
YOU!
you will always be the only one you can truly rely on so stop looking to others and start looking to yourself.

(Owo)\ i sound like a broken record lol.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#8

Post by Hargan »

Okay, I'm going to try to do this a civilly as possible, so rant first, question later:

I.... I post something I found that has changed my life to a positive direction. I'm no longer under as much stress, nor do I feel the need to be glued to my phone or computer in order to respond to people. And people treat it like I'm.... wow... Are you guys addicted to social networking? Can you put your phone down at the table and speak to others for two hours without once looking at your phone?

Rant over

Yes, I can rant civilly. Now, to answer questions and comments in whatever order I find them, so out of order, whatever, I still answer em:

Animew

there will come a time where you read through this and feel shame... such utter shame...

--- See all my responses, and understand I won't.

friends are like social pacifiers, they are convenient comfort but essentially just a lie, i'd recommend you not get too dependent.

--- "This realisation actually has helped me, because I've removed a lot of the burdens and demands I placed on these friends..." If you read a little between the lines, you can see there was dependency which was unhealthy. And this thread is about me changing it.

as i have said before, sort out your life (/<w<)/ if your environment is conducive to the SAD then you won’t be rid of it regardless of the number of friend bandaids you apply.

--- Agreed. How do I get out of an environment I can't escape besides heading into one that would make it worse? Like to hear an answer for that one. Cause yes, without a job, without any support, I could walk away from home, but that would end worse than me staying here right now.
--- Oh, and if you mention by getting a job, I will curse you, no jokes, no nothing. And it will not be pretty. Because if you don't realise I've been trying for years by now, then you're an idiot. If you do realise it, then you know telling someone who is trying to do something to do it makes them very pissed off.

(゚ヮ゚)/ only person that can help you is you! the sooner folks realize that the sooner they'll get over what’s ailing them.

--- Save yourself from Cancer. My dad couldn't, but I wanna see you do it. Point being: You can't save yourself from everything.

are there any friends that get enough benefit from you to justify them dropping everything and try to solve your problem?

---Yes there are. When I attempted suicide with the pills, I made sure not to contact any of them. Needless to say, they visited me in the hospital and gave what I deserved. Saw some again a few weeks ago, acted like that wasn't even a problem when I brought it up. And yes, one I know for sure would have driven me to a medical centre to get my stomach pumped. They each help in their own way, and frankly, I'm thankful for that.

in fact, internet friends are better for discussing your true feelings because they are disposable so if they happen to go: "ermegerd! dewd, you so fucked up!" then you just drop the identity when there are enough people that hates you to make drama for you... so essentially you can discuss anything with online friends unlike real life friends who know your face, real name and who knows what other deets... discussing your true feels with your IRL friends is a sure fire way to fuck up your personal life.

---And I'm the sociopath? Each person you interact with online is still a human being. Treat them like so, and give them the respect they deserve.

once all the frilly froo froo nonsense of friendship love and empathy gets washed away by a nice cold shower of reality, what’s left?
YOU!

--- Ahuh.... I agree that this is the truth. In fact, most of the stuff I do, I do by myself. When I can't, I ask for help. When I'm out of my league, I ask for guidance. When I'm out of ideas, I ask for them. Notice how it's only after I, that I turn to them. Rely? No, I don't rely on them. But I am not an island either. Even as an introvert, I crave some social interactions. Why? Because I'm human, and humans are pack animals. This whole thread started because I felt that I was living an empty life, and for me it was. This was designed so that those who also need physical social interaction can realise that the internet and telecommunications are not enough. This wasn't just about me, but my experience to try show there are other ways of doing things too.

Galahad

Whether online or offline, people can only react to what you decide to put forward - your habits, interests, attitude, integrity and behaviour. If you keep them sealed up and shut yourself away from the world, for example, it is not owed to you (or to anyone else) for others to dig and mine through thick layers of withdrawal and self-isolation to get to the real you. A close and caring friend might try, but you cannot expect that of everyone around you. Similarly, if you wear a mask and pretend to be something you are not, you will attract and repel others based on that lie, and the people who stay with you may not be the people you really want.

--- Agree 100%. Except.... Everyone does wear a mask ;3 Even you, Gally, if I may call you so. So I'd actually argue, that while the onus isn't on them to dig through, correct, it should be on you to portray yourself as who you actually are, no masks attached, no lies, no hidden secrets. Can you do that? I can't, but as time goes on and I care less, I tend to tell those who want to listen. But I don't force it upon them, and I give them time to decide if they want to know the real me, or if they're happier not knowing what lies beneath the mask. Some people don't want to know about Outsiders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_ ... 6_Dragons)

People can only find reason to like you (which is indeed their choice - no-one has to like anyone else) if you put out a reason for them to. And you alone choose what that reason is. They simply choose how they react to that reason.

---- Yes and no. You will find people who will view actions you do and view as plain or ordinary as cute or kind or something. Yes, you put out the action, but with no stake behind it, they find the reason for why they agree with it or dislike it.

So perhaps, instead of generalizing and complaining and lumping friends into categories, re-examine perhaps why you have suffered these negative experiences, and seek to change positively that which you do control: what people observe, see and hear of you. You cannot make a friend of everyone, but you might be painting those who would make fantastic friends with the same brush of pessimism as those who would not, simply because you are being passive and expecting people to come to you.

--- Again, agree and disagree. Yes, if I weren't focusing on the fact that there are differences in friends, which there always will be, no human is alike, there would be no need for categorising. However, since this entire thread is about online and offline friends, who are very different categories, I continue to do so here. However as stated earlier, I do treat them differently because there are things that one category can do, that the other cannot, again something you will note with all people when you categorise them. But, this isn't a negative thing. After all, Animew also proved he treats them differently too, by running away and leaving them in the dust, or never opening up to them fully.

If you are feeling down and no-one seems to care, muster the willpower to send someone you know and trust a message: "Hey. I hope you are alright. May we please talk? I am really not feeling well, and I would appreciate it if we could just talk so I can get something off my chest." One might be surprised how some people react compassionately and caringly to a message like that, even when one thought they did not care because they did not approach you first.

---Actually, I have some really amazing friends who check up on me because of my depression. So, all I need to do is actually utilise them, instead of holding it in, but thanks for the tip.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#9

Post by Animew »

Hargan wrote: I will curse you, no jokes, no nothing.
oh please, i'd SO kick your ass in a wizard battle.
Hargan wrote:How do I get out of an environment I can't escape besides heading into one that would make it worse?
Hargan wrote:Oh, and if you mention by getting a job
yea its annoying as fuck how people just go "gedda jawb!" like you can just go out and pick one off a goddamn job tree. nah, IMHO you don’t need a job... heck, if i was you i wouldn’t even want a job, they are overrated. but you do need something to occupy your time... and it sure won’t hurt if whatever you do gives you a bit of an income... Owo\ oh wait I’ve actually told you this in much the same words before.

look bro, i get what you are going through... i get it better than most. I’ve actually had some pretty horrible shit happen to me too and i can’t say i didn’t whine about it but the time i wasted on whining about it is time i'll never get back and time that ultimately amounted to nothing more than making people think i'm an emo little bitch.

you seem like you are at least not stupid, just find something you like doing -> get good at it -> monetize it only if you feel like you want money (cash is handy after all but not the meaning of life)... but do something... trust me, I’ve been where you are now and no amount of socializing or sex can fix it.
Hargan wrote:Save yourself from Cancer.
well actually... *cough* nah, never mind. I’d rather not get into that.
Hargan wrote:Yes there are.
well aren’t you special, people being willing to try and stop you from killing yourself!? no waaaaay...
ok, that may be a tad much sarcasm... but i'm in a foul mood so deal.
yea, as you said humans are a pack animal and our brains tend to have a problem with seeing others in our species die... we tend to be a little less motivated when lives are not at stake so then of course you get people that hold themselves at ransom with the threat of suicide… personally I feel that if a friend genuinely wants to die, it’s my obligation as his friend to respect his wishes and I’d go as far as doing it for him if he is too much of a pussy to do it himself... totes expect the same from my friends.
Hargan wrote:And I'm the sociopath?
pfft, i've mentioned repeatedly that i'm an asshole. just because you suddenly realized that i wasn’t lying about it, doesn’t make you any less of an asshole than me.
Hargan wrote:Each person you interact with online is still a human being. Treat them like so, and give them the respect they deserve.
GNYAHAHAHA! oh please, like you give a rats ass! i afford every living creature the exact amount of respect that they earn... and mind you that’s fairly little in most cases. i have a code of conduct that prevents me from being tactless but beyond that, each and every living being in the universe is mutually insignificant.
Hargan wrote:This wasn't just about me
Hargan wrote:This was designed so that those who also need physical social interaction can realise that the internet and telecommunications are not enough.
Hargan wrote:to try show there are other ways of doing things too.
(/<w<)/ so then why all the personal stuff? i mean i can drone on about my experiences to try and illustrate how i dealt with my problems and draw comparisons to you problems... but that would only open me up to inquest and judgment... so i tend to leave those bits out and focus on the core point. why not just go:
"i have found that internet friends do not hold the same tactile quality that IRL friends do and hence it may be unwise to focus your social interactions to the online platform. this conclusion is drawn from my own personal experiences and i would like to know what others have noticed in IRL interactions and online interactions."
you see, that way no smart assed douchebags like me notice you mentioning your suicidal tendencies and depression multiple times and go "well shit, dat boi's OBVIOUSLY lookn for attention... lemmeh just go over there and ruffle his feathers some fur teh lulz"
nope, only boring o'l debate and civilized conversation about rational matters... but hey, i like your way better so please keep at it. \(OwO)/ suicide is like my trigger word!
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#10

Post by Adagio »

Hey Hargan.
Just a disclaimer... I haven't followed this thread closely so if I get facts wrong. Please point me to the right post...

I'm very sorry that you haven't made any real connections in the fandom. But that isn't my experience...

Me? I had one friend all my life. one friend I could(And still can) rely on to always be there for me through everything.
When he was in an accident the other day. My heart nearly stopped. And seeing him in the hospital like that broke my heart...

But since end 2015, I have made so many genuine friends... People I can rely on to be there for me in times of need...
And when their lives were threatened. I was going to be there for them, work, uni, money be damned!
And this HAS happened. It's not that I'm talking fluff. I genuinely care about these people. And they do to me.

I'm sorry you haven't made these kinds of connections...

I remember the whole ordeal with you a few years back like it was yesterday. And I remember people trying hard to reach someone close to you to get you help. I wouldn't call that not trying to help. In fact. That event sparked the idea of the Emergency Contacts List me and Lee set up.
For moments like those. So we can get people help if they need them.
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Re: Theory about friends and Internet friends

#11

Post by Hargan »

Adagio, just a quick note, I have made great connections through the fandom, dun worry, I have enjoyed my time.

Anyway, quick update, didn't want to update until after I did what I did.

Last night I took friends who are mostly in the online category, and went and did stuff with them offline.

It was better than anything we did online n.n

Now I am very tired, so I will respond later when awake, or tomorrow after proper sleep, but I hadn't replied because I needed to prove to myself that what my theory is was true: Offline grants access to so much more than online can ever do.

Now I'm going back to sleep :P
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