The paranormal!

[Franky]

Sheesh so much tldr's. And half of you guys say nothing at all.

The burdon of proof lies with whomever makes the claim. Otherwise you can claim whatever you want and consider it factual. This is why the spaghetti monster is a thing btw.

Science doesn't work on the proof of claims. It starts with the observation of reality. It is rational, predictable and reproducible. Yes there are things that can't be explained yet hence the existence of scientists. But this doesn't mean you can go and make your own assumptions on what is going on.

[Animew]

Animew Stop what you are doing!
You cannot come between Rakuen and his stiff view of reality!
All this will result in is another IQ comparison to reaffirm his superior inelegance to us dumb dumbs.

NU! as a concerned citizen it's my responsibility to knock him off his high horse so he can have fun with all us plebeians! i've witnessed him lighten up long enough to make funny jokes so i'm not giving up on him.

Perhaps because if we were to compare the success rate between, as an example, modern medicine and medical witchcraft, we'd find they are far from equal in the cases that can be found.

nyuhuhu, so you actually went there ey?
tell me galahad, do you know of every occurrence of medical witchcraft and every occurrence of modern medicine? no? well, of course not. unless you do, you can’t really get an accurate measure of their success rates. You need to reaffirm the validity of your sample group… unless you physically go out and collect an equal amount of sample instances from both, you can’t hope to get even a remotely accurate idea of the comparative efficacy of either. what you seem to be saying is that you don’t mind blindly following convention because blindly following convention has provided you with a comfortable life so far... and i can respect that, but let’s not go looking down on folks because they chose to look for something outside of convention regardless of how ridiculous or ineffectual it may appear when compared to convention.
Let’s take cancer for instance: (yea, I gon dunit nyao)
Modern medicine says there is no cure for it, correct? Treatments, yes. but no cures. Owo I personally know of several plants that cures cancer. I’ve seen it working and tested it quite a bit myself. Why don’t people know about this? Simple… because if you cure an illness you can’t charge people for the chronic medication… it’s all fine and dandy to make fun of people saying stuff like “African potatoes cures aids” but lest do that after we have taken a nice close look at those potatoes for ourselves mkay.

(Oh, and I am not picking on you, Animew. However, I just felt the need to contribute.)

hehe, no problem bro.

But no, instead, it is merely brushed off instead.

Why?

This could be an amazing find, except it is only "crackpots" who look out to do these things. Why? For all we know, we might discover something new about the human brain's method of working, or, god forbid, prove that there is something more.

Owo exactly! some things considered supernatural can be a great asset to human life! knowing what happens after death would enable people to live without fear n stuff.

... but let’s face it, it’s totes going to fuck up the status quo of the world if ever proven so it’s no surprise you hear so little about it and when you do hear about it it’s diluted with laboratory grade bullshit.

ooh, but as for your scientific interest in ghosts and junk, i've actually been working on isolating the soul in a way that it can be studied <w< i can show you some cool spooky stuff. i kinda approached the spirits thing differently tho, instead of looking for ghosts in haunted houses i looked for spirits in living things because ghosts are said to come from dead stuff... so naturally the best way would be to look into living stuff... Owo i mean why go looking for something illusive when you know where they come from?
But the biggest challenge is not finding the soul or trapping a ghost in a ghost buster’s boxy… Owo it’s figuring out whether what you have in the ghost buster’s boxy IS in fact a ghost or a soul… I mean it could just be gods toejam or something completely different from what you think it is that just happen to be similar in its descriptive properties of whatever you’re looking for.

It's just that they've been tested so many times that there's no point constantly investigating them.

so doing something wrong multiple times makes doing it at all impossible, and therefore making any further attempts is pointless?
rakuen, rather look at what people are doing in their experiments instead of just the results.

The burdon of proof lies with whomever makes the claim. Otherwise you can claim whatever you want and consider it factual. This is why the spaghetti monster is a thing btw.

as i said about the burden of proof thing, it goes both ways... if you want to disprove something it lies with you. otherwise you should just respect others opinions for what they are... other people’s opinions. you'll find a lot of spaghetti monsters in theoretical physics too btw.

[Faanvolla]

Owo I personally know of several plants that cures cancer. I’ve seen it working and tested it quite a bit myself. Why don’t people know about this?

Care to share the names? Or what they look like even?
I'm sure a lot of people suffering from cancer might be willing to give them a shot even if they don't believe in homeopathy.
Worst case, you ate some plants that do nothing, you already have cancer and might die, so why not try it?
"Why don't they know about this"
Have a large sample of cancer patients be cured of this miracle plant, and publish your findings in a medical journal /peer review and publish.
Honestly, you having the 'cure for cancer' but not doing this already seems very selfish

[Galahad]

tell me galahad, do you know of every occurrence of medical witchcraft and every occurrence of modern medicine? no? well, of course not. unless you do, you can’t really get an accurate measure of their success rates. You need to reaffirm the validity of your sample group…

I've already addressed the "you are unaware of every incidence of witchcraft in the world" argument in the second half of my previous post.

what you seem to be saying is that you don’t mind blindly following convention because blindly following convention has provided you with a comfortable life so far...

I am not sure where you got "blindly" from, as I mentioned modern medicine a) having proven itself repeatedly, but b) still not being perfect. It would also not be "blind" if it were successfully giving me a "comfortable life" and thus proving its effectiveness, which you mentioned it was.

but let’s not go looking down on folks because they chose to look for something outside of convention regardless of how ridiculous or ineffectual it may appear when compared to convention.

So I cannot call people doing irrational things, irrational? You were quick to call my trust in medicine, or "convention" as you put it, "blind".

Modern medicine says there is no cure for it, correct? Treatments, yes. but no cures. Owo I personally know of several plants that cures cancer. I’ve seen it working and tested it quite a bit myself. Why don’t people know about this? Simple… because if you cure an illness you can’t charge people for the chronic medication… it’s all fine and dandy to make fun of people saying stuff like “African potatoes cures aids” but lest do that after we have taken a nice close look at those potatoes for ourselves mkay.

That is venturing out of the realm of the paranormal, and into basic medicine. For example, pharmacists prescribe cannabis pills for several medicinal purposes, and several other plants are also frequently used for a variety of other medicinal purposes, such as flaxseed and ginseng. That is not the paranormal or the supernatural, as mainstream medicine accepts it and uses it. Visit a local pharmacist, and you will probably find them.

[Splicer-Fox]

Will you people stop killing the rain forest.

Here is some evidence. (though i think i can explain some of them)

[Leeward]

Owo I personally know of several plants that cures cancer. I’ve seen it working and tested it quite a bit myself. Why don’t people know about this?

Care to share the names? Or what they look like even?

I was going to mention cannabis, but Galahad beat me to it.

Modern medicine says there is no cure for it, correct? Treatments, yes. but no cures. Owo I personally know of several plants that cures cancer. I’ve seen it working and tested it quite a bit myself. Why don’t people know about this? Simple… because if you cure an illness you can’t charge people for the chronic medication… it’s all fine and dandy to make fun of people saying stuff like “African potatoes cures aids” but lest do that after we have taken a nice close look at those potatoes for ourselves mkay.

That is venturing out of the realm of the paranormal, and into basic medicine. For example, pharmacists prescribe cannabis pills for several medicinal purposes, and several other plants are also frequently used for a variety of other medicinal purposes, such as flaxseed and ginseng. That is not the paranormal or the supernatural, as mainstream medicine accepts it and uses it. Visit a local pharmacist, and you will probably find them.

[Hargan]

Rakuen: I know of the studies. I think they're amazing. I think it's great we can remove certain explanations for haunted places and such like.

I am sorry that I didn't make that clear earlier. In fact, most of my posts are rambling, so here's one that tries to not be:

Have they ever tried a scientific experiment on the other side?

Ie, have they sat and ran an experiment at haunted places with times with no paranormal occurrences forming the baseline etc, etc.

I ask because here's an issue: Ghosts are meant to be the spirits of dead people, correct?

Why is no research run like a social experiment?

Why hasn't anyone tried a longitudinal study, over months, at a haunted place?

And if they have, please could you point it to me?

I understand these things cost money, I understand people feel like it's a waste. But if ghosts are meant to be people, why are they not regarded as such when it comes to experiments regarding them?

Edit: Also, this is gonna cause a stir Rakuen.....

Why does my dog respond well to Homeopathic medication for arthritis? It isn't in her head, cause she doesn't know what we're giving her. But it helps lessen the stiffness....

Edit again:
Animew: I'm not a guy who just sleeps with anybody's sister But thanks, I think?

Rakuen: I don't believe in ESP, but I do believe in reading body language so much that it can appear that the person is psychic. I believe in leading people on to answers that make you seem psychic through manipulation. Last person who tried to proof they were "telepathetic" (their own words) got an answer of "vegetable" from me when I had to tell them of the first fruit that came to mind. Nobody knows what I'm gonna say, not even me

[Rakuen Growlithe]

it’s all fine and dandy to make fun of people saying stuff like “African potatoes cures aids” but lest do that after we have taken a nice close look at those potatoes for ourselves mkay.

There's a huge asymmetry in the amount of energy it takes to say something false and the amount of energy it takes to show that something that was said is false. Showing potatoes don't cure AIDS doesn't help if they just move on to the next vegetable and the next. Until solid evidence is given supporting that claim it is correct to dismiss it.

Why does my dog respond well to Homeopathic medication for arthritis? It isn't in her head, cause she doesn't know what we're giving her. But it helps lessen the stiffness....

Almost certainly it doesn't. I'd wager you'd get just the same response if I switched out that medicine for tap water. I know, I know, you see it helping but all I'm seeing are issues. The dog doesn't know what you are giving her but you do and you expect it to help. Dogs can sense emotions and that could have an effect. In addition, giving her medicine is also giving her attention which could make her feel better. You aren't measuring stiffness with a tool but subjectively, it can be that you expect her to do better so you interpret what you see as her doing better. Main issue, this is not double blind. Other issue, I don't think you have a clear and objective way of measuring the outcome.

[Hargan]

I would agree with you, except....

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0700/ ... 1446648731

That's the stuff we bought from the vet beforehand. The stuff that the homeopathy beat.

Now to further note: It was not as good as giving her rymadol, an anti-inflammatory. But we can't give her that daily, due to it messing up her stomach if we did. But why.... why on earth did the homeopathy, which I had no faith in, which I thought was snake oil, work better than a vet approved powder?

I want an answer, mainly so that I can understand it myself...

[Rakuen Growlithe]

I don't know. I don't know how you compare them or how that is supposed to work or that much about arthritis. What I can say is that some medicines only work on specific things and not all medicines work for everyone. Even humans have to sometimes try multiple medicines to find one that works for them. I used to study with someone who was working on pharmacogenetics, which is basically trying to assign drug dosages according to a person's genetics. If you can metabolise a drug twice as fast as the person the dose was tested on then you will not get the right benefit with that dose. And if you metabolise a drug more slowly you could overdose with the normal concentration.

[Leeward]

I've heard from multiple sources (usually old people) that ingesting Ballistol oil helps with arthritis, even in pets. This, among other things, shows that there definitely is merit to experimentation, and that there may be factors we don't know about, such as unidentified compounds.

[Franky]

Homeopathy relies on the unproven claim that water memorises molecular structures under extreme dilutions. Doesn't it bother anyone that with the very popular 30C dilution a tablet needs to be the size of the solar system to contain a single molecule of whatever active ingredient?

And lets consider this water memory thing. Does that mean there's more arsenic in a homeopathy tablet thinking that somewhere on just the size of the water volume on earth millions of deadly elements and molecules made contact with the global water supply? O.O

It's all bullcrap but fuck I was hoping some people send me pictures of what they think is ghosts or demons in this thread. Lol

[Hargan]

It's all bullcrap but fuck I was hoping some people send me pictures of what they think is ghosts or demons in this thread. Lol

Your wish is my command

http://zombie7.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... efault.jpg

[Galahad]

Your wish is my command

http://zombie7.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... efault.jpg

Convincing enough for me. Ghosts are real. In your face, Scooby-Doo.

[Franky]

This is definitely a demon possesion. Surely she can't lift herself up that high from the ground. I don't see anything that could assist her in the levitation.

:V

The above is an image of many more regarding the worlds most documented "hauntings" known as the Enfield poltergeist.

Fml people are gullible.

[Contrast]

It's all bullcrap but fuck I was hoping some people send me pictures of what they think is ghosts or demons in this thread. Lol

This is one of my favourite ghost photos. It's a fake, but I've always thought it looked creepy as hell.

[Franky]

It's all bullcrap but fuck I was hoping some people send me pictures of what they think is ghosts or demons in this thread. Lol

One of my favourite ghost photos is this one. It's a fake, but I've always thought it looked creepy as hell.

...Pic...

Love it. The scaling also look weird and creepy. We should make fake haunting films and photo's.

[Raven Song]

Look, I hate threads like this because the whole thing about paranormal things is they are pretty hard to prove, but that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist... like 90% of shit in space.

I will however say this on homeopathy because I am a subscriber to it:

when horses at the yard get a bit of a runny nose - we give them garlic in their dinner. clears the snotty nose up in a day or so, because garlic boosts the immune system.
when dogs suffer from fleas etc. give them garlic. because fleas and ticks don't like garlic.
when I have stomach aches or gastric issues, I have some pineapple juice, because pineapple juice has an enzyme that actually breaks down our own tissues and helps clear up my stomach issues.

No, I do not think homeopathy is better than ACTUAL medicine HOWEVER it has it's merits if used wisely and not used as a medical replacement. obviously when I have severe stomach aches etc. I go to the docs. and yes, one of the horses has not gotten over his snots so he gets a visit from Mike the vet tomorrow. Homeopathy shares one thing with science that you guys seem to disregard. It is tried and tested and if it works it's no longer a theory, it's a fact.

Now i'm done with this sort of topic, I am allowed to believe in what I want to, and I don't need anyone else to tell me what I have experienced and what I haven't.

[Franky]

Look, I hate threads like this because the whole thing about paranormal things is they are pretty hard to prove, but that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist... like 90% of shit in space.

I will however say this on homeopathy because I am a subscriber to it:

when horses at the yard get a bit of a runny nose - we give them garlic in their dinner. clears the snotty nose up in a day or so, because garlic boosts the immune system.
when dogs suffer from fleas etc. give them garlic. because fleas and ticks don't like garlic.
when I have stomach aches or gastric issues, I have some pineapple juice, because pineapple juice has an enzyme that actually breaks down our own tissues and helps clear up my stomach issues.

No, I do not think homeopathy is better than ACTUAL medicine HOWEVER it has it's merits if used wisely and not used as a medical replacement. obviously when I have severe stomach aches etc. I go to the docs. and yes, one of the horses has not gotten over his snots so he gets a visit from Mike the vet tomorrow. Homeopathy shares one thing with science that you guys seem to disregard. It is tried and tested and if it works it's no longer a theory, it's a fact.

Now i'm done with this sort of topic, I am allowed to believe in what I want to, and I don't need anyone else to tell me what I have experienced and what I haven't.

Pinapple and garlic are not homeopathic remedies but instead food. I can concur 100% that garlic does help for a runny nose. Pineapple might work though many people are allergic and experience stomach cramps when eating pinapple. There are enzymes that work as an anti inflammatory in pinapples. This is tested via scientific method.

A homeopathic pinapple needs to be diluted accourding to their witchdocter magic ways into non existance. Otherwise it's simply a pinapple with actual benefits. Eating icky old bread mold will kill bacteria. Thus the discovery of penicillin. Be careful when thinking the good scientifically tested stuff in a pharmacy is not a result of natural working remedies. Science allows us to see exactly what is happening and remove any problems whilst amplifying the effects within healthy parameters of coarse.

There exists absolutly 0 legitimate proof that homeopathy does anything more than placebo.

The issue is understanding medicine. Flu doesn't get cured with antibiotics. Secondary infection does. This helps the body focus on building an immunity towards the virus while the antibiotics kills the bacteria. Homeopathy shoved itself in there as alternate medicine. This is dangerous and can even be fatal.

Homeopaths never tests their claims and only say: this person had a cold we gave him/her this sugar pill and now he/she is better. It's like waving to the clouds and an hour later saying you caused the sky to change. There is a reason why it isn't prescribed by a GP.

I wanna see the day they sell homeopathic contraceptives or whatnot. XD

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Yeah, Raven, that's not homeopathy. Homeopathy is based on a weird belief that things that cause a symptom can cure that same symptom when diluted. Usually it means you buy bottles of water or sugar pills which supposedly had a substance in them at one point but are then diluted millions and millions of times because homeopathy believes that water has a memory and that the more you dilute something the stronger its curative powers become.

[Raven Song]

And today Raven learned that something she thought she was a part of apparently she wasn't. All this time I thought that my eating herbs and plants to make me better counted as homeopathy because I read a book once and googled "plants that help with stomach cramps" (its hard to get a doctors appointment in the UK okay).

Whelp, I'm off. Thanks guys

[Animew]

woah! you guys sure are going at it this time, daium.

Care to share the names? Or what they look like even?

lol, NOPE! at least not publicly, cancer is far too useful a tool to just blurt out its cure.

I'm sure a lot of people suffering from cancer might be willing to give them a shot even if they don't believe in homeopathy.
Worst case, you ate some plants that do nothing, you already have cancer and might die, so why not try it?

well, you don’t actually eat the plants. it’s the alkaloids you are after and you'd want to try and remove some of the toxic compounds from the plants extracts too. if i happen upon any cancer victims i'm always happy to help, but i'm not going to go looking for them, at least not now... i did when i was testing the stuff but there’s no need now.

"Why don't they know about this"
Have a large sample of cancer patients be cured of this miracle plant, and publish your findings in a medical journal /peer review and publish.

some have tried doing this, but apparently they bog you down with legal issues about human trials and what not. haven’t given it a try myself but i don’t particularly feel like getting media flamed or going to jail. besides it’s not just one plant, its several. i'm no expert on cancer, i only know what i've observed myself so i don’t have the fancy names but cancer is a tad more complicated than just cells that dun know when to die. some of the compounds are only effective against certain varieties of cancer and some just do better at reaching the affected areas than others. so just getting a bunch of random cancer patients together and holding a cure all orgy will give you spotty results.

Honestly, you having the 'cure for cancer' but not doing this already seems very selfish

hehe, i'm a cat. shellfish is what i do. besides i'm not the only one that knows, i went on a little expedition to study traditional healers methods and logic to see if they were bogus or not. some were bogus... bogus to a plain dangerous degree, Owo giving folks toxic shiz and all. but some were pretty legit and knowledgeable. i only got around to sangomas and indian bush doctors but i found 5 different legitimate cures for cancer.

There's a huge asymmetry in the amount of energy it takes to say something false and the amount of energy it takes to show that something that was said is false. Showing potatoes don't cure AIDS doesn't help if they just move on to the next vegetable and the next. Until solid evidence is given supporting that claim it is correct to dismiss it.

There's a huge asymmetry in the amount of energy it takes to poop in our pants and the amount of energy it takes to go to the toilet... so what? if you don’t feel like expending the energy then don't. if you don’t want to know then don’t find out, simple as that. but stop discouraging people from looking into things because of your own opinions, it’s never "correct to dismiss it" if you haven’t looked into it. by all means ignore it yourself if you don’t feel it will be fruitful but don’t try and stop others mkay.

Dogs can sense emotions and that could have an effect.

holy crud! that’s pretty esoteric stuff to be coming out of your mouth... didn’t you mean to say: "dogs can read body language and interpret your intent thus affecting the outcome."?

I've already addressed the "you are unaware of every incidence of witchcraft in the world" argument in the second half of my previous post.

you did? gosh i didn’t notice... ^w^" er... i still don’t notice, could you point out that part please?

I am not sure where you got "blindly" from, as I mentioned modern medicine a) having proven itself repeatedly, but b) still not being perfect. It would also not be "blind" if it were successfully giving me a "comfortable life" and thus proving its effectiveness, which you mentioned it was.

i was just asking really. but if blindly wasn’t the correct term perhaps "contently"? since you don’t really seem bothered with finding any alternatives to the convention? i could be wrong here. like i said, i'm more asking that saying.

So I cannot call people doing irrational things, irrational? You were quick to call my trust in medicine, or "convention" as you put it, "blind".

hehe, never said you can’t call people names yo. just said you shouldn’t be so quick to define stuff as irrational when you don’t know enough about it. <w< i mean most straight guys would call buttsex irrational but there be lotsa folks thinking the opposite... can you really say who is correct?

for several medicinal purposes

you mean these medical purposes?

Galahad, let me tell you the story of my people... er i mean of pharmaceuticals:
for a long time people relied on plants for medicine and it worked pretty well. but soon people were pretty knowledgeable about plants and they cultivated and used them themselves. then along came the pharmaceutical industry and made it "easier" for people by extracting the active ingredients and putting them into pills and junk. they then realized you can’t patent plants so people were still making their own. then they made synthetic versions of the compounds that sometimes carried severe side effects from not having had to exist in a living organism BUT they were able to patent the medication and stop people from making their own. then as time went by, they systematically warped the reputation of medicinal plants, seeding misconception and fear. so at the end of the day the part of modern medicine you know as pharmaceuticals was nothing more than a colossal step backwards for the medical knowledge of humanity... now, you are free to watch as "modern medicine" slowly turns into a perfect device for controlling a population... but personally i'd prefer having the means to heal myself when medical care becomes something reserved for the rich and powerful.

Animew: I'm not a guy who just sleeps with anybody's sister

i actually don’t have a sister lol. tiz just an expression really.

Homeopathic medication

i'm not particularly clued up when it comes to homeopathy, I’ve merely done some light reading on the subject myself but i keep hearing the same tired old response: "it’s just water!"
but from what i can tell, there might be more to this than meets the eye... at least in their approach to treating patients. allopathy focuses on treating symptoms where homeopathy treats patients. symptoms according to homeopathy is just the body’s outwards expression/reaction to an internal ailment and should not be hindered as it is the body’s way of trying to heal itself. a homeopath seeks to interpret the symptoms to figure out what’s really wrong with the person then they address the real problem. Owo i'm not exactly sure how diluted stuff is supposed to do that but it was described as essences. i'm not so sure dilution can extract essences in the sense that i understand essences but if that’s the reasoning behind it i believe THAT should be what’s tested. and it should be simple and inexpensive enough to do so. you are not going to get consistent results if you test homeopathy on a group of people because each cure is tailor made for each person (or at least that’s how i understand it) scrutinizing the core components of the processes involved is far more logical IMHO.

[Franky]

^Not sure if Poe or not. <. <