Censorship

[Leeward]

I made a fuss over the text alignment thing because when I suggested the addition of formatting tags and other features I was shot down repeatedly, and yet when someone else asks it's done immediately.

Because I asked nicely.
I didn't go ahead as if it was his soul duty to fullfill my request.

They are people... Not robots.
They have lives. They have jobs. They have their own problems OTHER than the forum.

And now the "we've got other things to do" card. I knew that one was coming.

I asked nicely too. Multiple times. Over a considerable span of time. Do you mean to tell me that both of them were busy for all of that time, or just happened to be dealing with crises every time I asked? Really?

I can understand having a life in meatspace, but if your responsibilities don't allow you to fulfil a duty you signed up for voluntarily, delegate it to someone else instead of just letting things stagnate and making people wait. Just because you're doing something pro-bono doesn't mean you have no obligation to do it properly, or at all. Sure you can earn respect for it, but you don't deserve absolute deference for your magnanimity.

I have a life and a job too, yet I still make time for my column and crafts on weekends. Do you see me being all high and mighty about having shit to do when I can't get around to it? Yes I might bitch and moan, but I've never told anyone that they were expecting too much of me.

I failed to see how that extremely provoking image could be considered cute. [...] And I sure as hell was not going to get one commissioned just to make a point.

I didn't commission it. Animew and I both dislike Rakuen, and he surprised me with a drawing just because he felt like it. I think the way he drew my toon is very kawaii, and I find the concept of a literal asshat rather amusing. Beauty and humour are both subjective. Just because it's offensive to someone doesn't mean it's not funny. I mean, look at the political satire cartoons you see in newspapers. Also it's not gory, unlike your image.

On a related note, do you think a snep butt hat would suit me? With a non-robotic tail of course, I wouldn't want anyone to think it's Adagio, plus it makes for a nice scarf combo.

[Sev]

You're welcome to come get it, but you'd have to catch me first.

[Leeward]

Oh wow, would you look at that! I caught you! It's a real shame I only have two fingers...

[Sev]

It's also too bad that you're hallucinating...

That sports car lite of yours wouldn't even be able to keep up with the slowest of my bikes.

[Leeward]

Dafuq are you on about? Was that supposed to be a comeback?

[Sev]

It's the only reality under which you would ever catch me.

There's a track day on the 10th; if you want to prove that you can catch me, you're more than welcome to.

The keys will be in the ignition.

...

And if you're talking about on foot, I'm betting that even in my post crash state, I would be able to outpace you.

[Leeward]

You want to make this a pissing contest now? You and your obsessive competitiveness...

[Valerion]

This is going way off-topic. Again.

Temporary lock.

[Tetsudra]

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4553

I'm here to respond to that thread (which is locked, and which tbh I didn't even read).

Haha wow I'm so done with this community. I really did think the problem was me, at first, that I was being unfair or aggressive when it wasn't called for, and that maybe if I tried behaving differently, I could get through to some people. I sank a ton of effort into trying to do just that, with the hope that if I pushed hard enough in one direction, that I could build some momentum and that others might follow. And that some of them may even have found it within themselves to forgive past transgressions (as I continually forgive others) in the spirit of building a better place.

Turns out that's definitely not the case. People are gonna hate on you no matter what you do, and tbh I'm not really up for constantly being attacked unfairly, by people that gather *years* worth of out-of-context quotes to use against you as ammunition, to win a power struggle that literally only exists inside their own heads. I'm equally not up for dealing with people that haul out all their emotional baggage on me, then hold me responsible for not deferring to their every complaint.

Seriously, guys, this is not a good place. And these are not good conversations to be having. There are better communities out there, run by better people, where you can make more of yourself than this shithole. Find them and be happy - because this is not it.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

I'll try re-opening this, at least temporarily, because I still have some things to say. But I do not want to see a continuation of Sev Vs. Lee.

Not towards laymembers. In fact it seems rather a double standard; laymembers can do pretty much whatever they want short of breaking the rules and it'll slide. But propose an improvement as a CR and unless it's as trivial as adding a text alignment tag, the answer will almost surely be no. Whether that's because they are opposed to improvements and don't have the knowledge to implement them I'll leave for them to answer.

Those are two different things. That's actually how rules work, for the most part you can do whatever within them. However suggestions have nothing to do with breaking the rules and are suggestions. There is no guarantee that they will be used. Most of your suggestions were changes, not improvements.

Complete misinterpretation of what that comic is supposed to convey. Firstly, the furry on the left is called GENERAL FURRY VIEW, not ZAFUR VIEW. Do you really think most furs are not like that? I doubt it. I can't blame you for taking it as an insult though, considering how well you fit into the left category. Secondly, the one on the right is called AC GOALS, not AC MANAGEMENT. We never claimed to be irreproachable, or the pinnacle of furry culture.

I didn't think it was about ZAFur. The hypocrisy was from the supposed values of AnthroCulture and how I have seen those leading it behave, not because of what they were contrasted with. If you claim to have goals then you should be trying to live up to them.

And pray tell what prompted that outburst, hmm? Again, intense frustration at the total lack of interest in implementing any improvements. You drive people insane with your passivity and then blame them when they snap.

I don't recall that figuring into it at all. Nor was anyone stopping him from implementing anything. He had a list of things he wanted to do. He didn't do them.

Oh please. You wouldn't give a shit less if I attacked other furs on other platforms, so why should AC care what people do here?

Because AnthroCulture is ostensibly promoting a more calm, positive and helpful mindset. Attacking users on any platform contradicts the values you are supposed to be representing and promoting.

I made a fuss over the text alignment thing because when I suggested the addition of formatting tags and other features I was shot down repeatedly, and yet when someone else asks it's done immediately.

I asked nicely too. Multiple times. Over a considerable span of time. Do you mean to tell me that both of them were busy for all of that time, or just happened to be dealing with crises every time I asked? Really?

Really? I just searched your posts with "align," alignment," "text," "tag" and "formatting." There was only one suggestion for a new formatting tag. Then I searched the whole suggestions area for your posts and by my count, we fully or partially implemented seven of your suggestions, one was impossible with the forum software and only three were not done. So the majority of the suggestions you made there were implemented. There were some others that were discussed internally but in a couple of cases Valerion told you that they were in conflict with his future plans.

LOL you're really taking that one hard, aren't you? First of all it's a joke (and a cute drawing), and second of all I see no reason to hide my disdain for you.

It's never nice to see hate. But it reflects worse on you and, again, is in contradiction with the values that you want to promote.

People are gonna hate on you no matter what you do, and tbh I'm not really up for constantly being attacked unfairly, by people that gather *years* worth of out-of-context quotes to use against you as ammunition, to win a power struggle that literally only exists inside their own heads.

While the incident when you left the forum was a few years ago there are no quotes from there because you deleted all your posts. Randall's many bans are also over years. However all the other quotes happened within the last six months and have links to the original posting so anyone can see the context themselves.

[Leeward]

On behalf of Randall, which I neither neither prompted nor edited:

Randall's many bans are also over years. However all the other quotes happened within the last six months and have links to the original posting so anyone can see the context themselves.

Since my name is being bandied about, and I am unable to respond directly, or defend my good name, I have asked an intermediary to post here on my behalf.

Firstly, I want to make it clear, because, it seems that its not clear- I am no longer really part of this community. I am perma-banned, not only that, I don't have any interaction with you either. As I was falsely accused by Valerion of taking revenge on him for the temp ban- which is something I didn't do, and also told "never contact me again" you as the forum leadership are doing a swell job of being the community pillars you claim to be.

You're also welcome to have a look on AnthroCulture, I am not active there anymore. I therefore assert my right for you not to discuss me, because I cannot defend myself. You have nothing to say about me, I am not in your space- what you're doing is approaching libel, and if you continue on this path, you will face consequences- take that as a warning. You can feel free to diss/libel my username, because, the more you do it, the less people want to have anything to do with you, so by all means, keep shooting your gun into your foot. But if you once (and you came close) start dissing me in my personal capacity, such that people/companies/organizations out there know about it, you can expect a world of pain.

Now, to one of the pet-subjects at hand. My banning on various forums has nothing to do with me as a person or my character. I get banned on forums because I like to troll. I am active on Carbonite, at present, so I don't know what you're referring to. Carbonite doles out temp bans, and that was like, 4 years ago a difference of opinion with FireStar about being scammed.. so what's your point???? I am also active on MyBroadband, I get a reprieve because I've agreed not to troll and diss their stakeholders. The ban here, is due to me not keeping my mouth shut about injustice here. That's the real reason, and is probably the first legitimate forum ban I have ever encountered.

Secondly, I want to reveal a truism here- This forum, as per the song, is on the road to nowhere. And I have an idea why this is. You really don't care about furry, this is just a convenient vehicle for you to meet partners because, you like dating people who sit with your sexual orientation as long as they're furry. That is no different to those who are into the BDSM scene, seeking like-minded partners. There is nothing wrong with that, HOWEVER, to use a community to leverage your agenda, is not cool.

Thirdly, in line with the second point, if you were serious about community work i.e. that is actually serving a community, running it, and all that goes with it, the forum would have been probably much larger in membership and a lot more active. But no, all you do, is think with your dick, your dick first, then the furry fandom.
I don't need to prove anything to you, but I have my twitter, and other means to know that I am justified in saying that the community in SA is quite bigger than you think it is. Its just that many choose not to interact with zafur, and the answer is the same every time- its your attitude, your lack of tact, and your agendas, and this applies to the forum owner downwards... Often I hear Uncle Kage this and Uncle Kage that... but if you were even remotely like him, even by 1% this forum would be way different.

As a final point, I have always been an entrepreneur, and I happened to have seen gaps, niches to make money. For some unknown reason, some of you think you're special snowflakes and I am not allowed to sell goods and services to you. Well its time you got real, got out of the fantasy and got into the meatspace you live in. Cold hard cash keeps this planet turning, we all need food on the table, we need to pay our way, and I will, unashamedly make money out of your need for premium quality yiff, because I can, and because you crave it.

I am a busy person now, Its quite a business, running a business, especially a media business, and I really don't have time for crap. So yeah, I am so done with this crap too, also done with the local furry community, I don't need this crap in my life- And newbies better heed Tetsudra's warning, because its true, this place is a shithole!

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Just going to keep this closed while there's no one around to supervise it.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

And open again.

[Cape_F0X]

My rose tinted sunglasses are now substantially faded.

[Galahad]

Cold hard cash keeps this planet turning, we all need food on the table, we need to pay our way, and I will, unashamedly make money out of your need for premium quality yiff, because I can, and because you crave it.

And I must choose you over the dozens of popular and experienced yiff artists who are but a few clicks away (and many of whom produce such content which is viewable for free)... Why? The supply far exceeds the demand if furry porn in general is what is being considered. If it is specific commissions one is talking about, the same question applies.

To be honest, this whole incident is becoming tiresome, and I share Cape's sentiment. There are some of us who consider ourselves part of a community - furries - that is not divisible along the lines of which sites we prefer to use, and hence feel dragged into this "ZAFur vs AC" war against our will. To put it crudely: Who gives a shit? This is but a hobby of mine, not a lifestyle or identity. I am here because I see in this community, all of it, likeminded people who share my interests and whom I can befriend, not because I have sworn fealty or allegiance to a group or site. If you must have a conflict, please do not turn it into a "turf war" that involves all of us.

[TheOldWolf]

Nicely put Galahad.

I'm new. So I wasn't gonna say anything in fear of stepping on toes.

But cmon. This all seems so pointless. >.<
I'm not as eloquent as Galahad or Cape. So I will use my own simple terms.

This is boring, nearly everyone who pays attention has said their parts.
Now pull up yer pants, dust off yer shirts and move along.

[Raven Song]

As a person who used to care about the ZAFur v AC thing (i have undying loyalty which makes it very hard for me to support two teams...) i have to, having been away a while, agree with the boys.
The stories are old the rivalries are dumb and at the end of the day if someone chooses them over us or vice versa or both or none thats their choice.

[Sev]

I just find it funny how the AC furs seem to always be the ones riling things up, and that they then still have the gall to turn around and say how bad ZAFur is for the local community...

[Cape_F0X]

#NoFilter #Oi Vey #FrozenThemeSong

[Raven Song]

Fuck it all... fuck it all... turn away and slam the doooor...

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Okay. I've had some suggestions to close this and I think we all know where everyone stands. To keep the peace, let's consider this closed and move on.

[Leeward]

I know what you're thinking: there she goes again, dragging us into a fight I have no interest in. Well if that's the case, then just move along and navigate away from this page. I'm not forcing you to take part or even read this. I just want to lay it out in the open for all to see, because I will not be smothered. Do with this what you will.

Since I was conveniently denied the opportunity to respond on this thread, I just want to put my final thoughts into words.

First of all, I really don't appreciate Rakuen locking the thread just after putting his last word in. Not only that, but since he implied that it would later be unlocked (which is was), I was waiting with a response. I saw that he came online multiple times without unlocking it, presumably because he saw that I was also online. Then, exactly what I expected would happen, happened: after I was offline for a few hours, the thread was unlocked, and before I had a chance to have my say, it was locked again. Now this may well be completely coincidental, but it seems just a little too convenient to me, especially considering how he avoided unlocking it while I was around. In my opinion, the whole exercise was nothing but a chance for Rakuen to show everyone just how alpha he is, and that is precisely the type of petty despotism that makes it clear (to me at least) that he is an incompetent leader. If you have to wait for your opposition to be absent to make your point, that in itself speaks volumes. Even so, if everyone else has no qualms letting themselves be policed by such a manipulative coward, I won't judge, but I for one have had enough. Whatever vestiges of respect I may have had left for Rakuen are now completely gone, and I have no intention of letting him have any say whatsoever over what I may or may not do. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that such an individual has the gall to appoint himself as our representative.


Now, a few points I feel should be clarified.


About my contributions to ZAFur:

However suggestions have nothing to do with breaking the rules and are suggestions. There is no guarantee that they will be used. Most of your suggestions were changes, not improvements.

Semantics. In the software development world (which forum management falls under, FYI, you would know this if you had any idea what you were doing), a change is an umbrella term which includes improvements, new features, and bugfixes.

Then I searched the whole suggestions area for your posts and by my count, we fully or partially implemented seven of your suggestions, one was impossible with the forum software and only three were not done. So the majority of the suggestions you made there were implemented. There were some others that were discussed internally but in a couple of cases Valerion told you that they were in conflict with his future plans.

There is no such thing as impossible when it comes to software, and the ones that were implemented were all minor to trivial. Valerion's "future plans" never came to fruition, did they? I had a LOT more to offer, but considering how eager you were to hear my suggestions I felt it wasn't worth my time or effort casting pearls towards swine.


Concerning AnthroCulture and its leadership:

The hypocrisy was from the supposed values of AnthroCulture and how I have seen those leading it behave, not because of what they were contrasted with. If you claim to have goals then you should be trying to live up to them.

There may have been a few slip-ups, we're only human, but on the whole we've been striving towards our goals fairly successfully. They're ideals, not fact. We're not time travellers, we can't change the past.

Oh please. You wouldn't give a shit less if I attacked other furs on other platforms, so why should AC care what people do here?

Because AnthroCulture is ostensibly promoting a more calm, positive and helpful mindset. Attacking users on any platform contradicts the values you are supposed to be representing and promoting.

That argument doesn't make any sense. We have no control over what people do on other platforms, therefore we have no grounds to chastise them for it on AC. Doing so would be even more hypocritical than keeping things compartmentalised, don't you think?

And pray tell what prompted that outburst, hmm? Again, intense frustration at the total lack of interest in implementing any improvements. You drive people insane with your passivity and then blame them when they snap.

I don't recall that figuring into it at all. Nor was anyone stopping him from implementing anything. He had a list of things he wanted to do. He didn't do them.

Then your memory must be faulty, because that's bullshit. I'm sure Tetsudra would be happy to elaborate were you to ask him, but somehow I doubt that's going to happen now.


About that silly picture:

LOL you're really taking that one hard, aren't you? First of all it's a joke (and a cute drawing), and second of all I see no reason to hide my disdain for you.

It's never nice to see hate. But it reflects worse on you and, again, is in contradiction with the values that you want to promote.

I really couldn't care less if I'm seen as hateful towards the likes of you. I like to think I'm fair, but when someone royally pisses me off I feel absolutely no shame expressing it. I have a lot of patience and forgiveness, but everyone has their limits, which is not in contradiction with those values. You only have yourself to blame, and it hurts because it's true; if you didn't want to see yourself depicted as an asshat, you shouldn't have acted like one.


So now my final point. I joined this site with open eyes, arms, mind, and heart. I got involved, I got emotionally invested, I tried my very best to contribute whatever I could. I can deal with adversity and criticism. But I got burnt. I got burnt hard. I learned my lesson. When there's a god complex at the helm, there's no point trying to achieve anything, because if they can't take credit for it, they don't want it to ever see the light of day. So let this be a friendly heads-up to any poor soul still naïve enough to think they can make a difference. People have tried. They have all failed. Not because of any shortcomings of their own, but because they didn't see the writing on the wall. So don't waste your good intentions.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Merged a thread on the same topic with this one and issued a 3 day ban for circumventing the thread lock.