No white's allowed...

[Faanvolla]

Make a thread called "off topic" where all the off topic posts from other threads get moved to instead of just removed I say/suggest

[Valerion]

In reaction to Leeward, I am going to go completely off-topic here, but it deserves an answer.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you are free of the consquences of said speech. I read through the posts Rakuen removed, and all they contain is a verbal spat between yourself and Sev, and I cannot see how that has anything to do with the topic under discussion. Going off-topic is one thing, to a limited extent, but attacking a fellow forumite for no apparent reason is quite another. The OP of this thread seemed hesitant to start it, and IMO with good reason. Threads about politics and religion can very, very quickly escalate into a flamewar. We haven't had a good flamewar in a while, but I would prefer that we refrain from that. I try to keep this a civil place to have a reasoned debate, but that depends on the people actually not just snapping at each other. We also have to maintain order in a forum like this one, like it or not. I completely agree with Rakuen that these should be removed.

I will also remind you that you very recently asked us to remove some posts off the forum that you didn't agree that they were posted here. We did so, and I didn't hear you complaining about censorship then.

@Faanvolla Usually that serves no purpose, as it involves people shouting at each other. Such a thread would have no context, and be very hard to follow, even if the posts are relevant. If there's a real topic in there, we'd rather split it into seperate threads.

Please do NOT repond to this post. I am not going to have a debate in this thread about the merits of freedom of expression and the ways in which people see that. You are welcome to start a thread on that, but be careful, I may just decide to use my own freedoms there.

I will restore the thread, so everyone can see what was said. Any replies to any of those posts will result in a ban. I will NOT allow that spat to continue and evolve into something bigger.

[Galahad]

For my own pure speculation , and because I couldn't really find any info about this googling:
I wonder how much the BEE program and similar helped with this. When companies were forced to start also employing non-whites, did that have a substantial increase in this, or was it mostly because of non segregation that people's lives and education/work levels became better?
And could it be that because the more-rich white people then might already own businesses or be 'higher ups', so they can employ their own children/family or have contacts at other businesses to put a good word/ recommendation in, that the rich ones don't have a problem staying that way/increasing their wealth, where the then poor white people now don't get the BEE-help, they are less likely to get jobs/promotions compared to similar 'level' (education, work, and class(must be a better word I can't think the english of. standing?)) non-white people. So that means that they might stay in the same 'wealth group' while others move up.

That is an interesting hypothesis, and, unfortunately, I cannot completely agree or disagree because - like you - I am currently unaware of anything concrete on the matter. Nonetheless, what is apparent from the statistics is that BEE is failing miserably. Remember how I mentioned a mean that is notably lower than its median indicates, in this context, that there is a much larger portion of poorer people than is expected? For blacks, this rift between rich and poor blacks has only worsened within those 9 years (from a 2003 mean that was 60% of its median, to a 2012 mean that is 55% of its median), despite blacks as a whole earning on average 23% more than what they did in 2003. This indicates to me that BEE is only serving to enrich blacks who are already well-off.

Closer on-topic, however - I believe whites are not as generally "privileged" as the term would imply. It is true: as it stands, whites are, on average, the most well-off and influential, and this certainly gives them and their children an advantage. However, not only is there a larger portion of relatively 'poor' whites as opposed to average and richer income, but this income gap between whites and non-whites is gradually vanishing.

[Cape_F0X]

A family member work in debt collection and they've noticed a lot of people are fond of debit orders.

We sometimes wonder if people earning (for example) R50 000 per month are pointing at others earning R20 000 per month and shouting "White Privilege" just because their pay cheque says R 10 000 due to all the debit orders.

[Splicer-Fox]

Does no body see the beauty of what is happening?
Malema was placed in the Tri-Partied alliance as a crony they can control.

They miss judged him and lost control of him, bringing him to their own ANC house trial to gracefully kick him out.
But Malema had already used his position to gain support and acquire a few keys to power.
His expulsion is seen more as a martyrdom by his supporters and opportunity to get out from under the ANC by others.
Honestly he made what should have been the end of his career into a great comeback.

His racism?
What great leader did not hate something?
And besides racism is a very useful tool in politics.
And the mistakes?
His seems to be doing too many things right for all the wrongs to stop his progress.

I don’t think that Malema will ever be in a position to hurt us.
And to me he seems to be more dangerous to the ANC at the moment.

Hypothetically if the sum of all fears happens?
Every country has its own form of Jews right?
Many will die but many will remain, that’s just how the world works.

[Cape_F0X]

I don't think it's OK for history to repeat itself every time a leader has a Napoleon complex.

[Splicer-Fox]

I don't think it's OK for history to repeat itself every time a leader has a Napoleon complex.

That is how humans do.

See you in WW3