Advice For University Students?

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Galahad
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Advice For University Students?

#1

Post by Galahad »

(Is this post too long? You do not have to read all of it. :) Just skip to the bottom, to the part in bold, if you do not feel like reading everything I have written.)

Perhaps you can identify with the following statement: Throughout primary and high school, life revolved around the present moment - perhaps the greatest concern that lingered on your impressionable young mind was whether your mother or guardian had packed your favourite snack in your lunchbox or not. The distant future rarely came to mind; perhaps a fleeting glimpse of what it may be appeared when your grade-three teacher asked you what you "want to be when you grow up". A fireman? A doctor? A police officer? A soldier?

Whatever the case, looking back upon such juvenile fantasies, you may now appreciate that, in the reality of adulthood, life is less carefree and more transient. The future and the people around you matter, and the starry-eyed visions of being a fireman or doctor may have been replaced with more realistic goals. For example, I remember considering being a theoretical physicist in grade ten; that aspiration was dropped, after realizing that employment opportunity of that kind in South Africa, outside of a professorship perhaps, is borderline dismal.

I am currently a mechanical engineering student, first year, after switching from another degree. After much introspection, I decided this is what I want, and, after almost six months of it, I am satisfied. I wanted a degree that provided for me economically, but also allowed me to use my brain regularly.

However, I feel a mental pitfall many students fall into is focusing only on the short-term: how good your semester marks are, while the rest of the time is spent partying. As mentioned earlier, the future matters. Yes, one wants to be a mechanical engineer. That is great. Yet, has one given thought to what it will take, specifically, to become one? Where one wants to work? Under what conditions one wishes to work? One's ambitions - perhaps starting one's own engineering firm? Does one want to move to another country? Et cetera.
Good marks are vital, and a cum laude is an admirable and respectable achievement, yet marks alone do not lead to one easily and simply acquiring a job.

Hence, I wanted to ask some things.
Not all of you are mechanical engineers or engineering students. That is fine. :)
Rather, I want to ask you:

Do you have any advice for me, as a young engineering student who has ambitions? If you were a university student, what do you think you could have done differently that would have made you a better student or prospective employee? Or, what did you do correctly that helped you obtain the job you want, or accomplish the goals you wanted to accomplish?

I ask, because I understand there are risks. Especially in a politically and economically turbulent country as South Africa (which is why I am considering moving to New Zealand or England after graduation, if possible). Not everyone with a degree is going to make it. That is reality. So, I want to maximize my chances. I have dreamed, I have aspired, and now I want to accomplish. And, to do that, I would really appreciate any wisdom you ladies and gentleman have to share. :) Thank you very much.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#2

Post by Sev »

I wish that I had treated it like an 8 to 5, honestly.

I attended lectures and did assignments, and that was pretty much it. If you force yourself to do a certain amount of work every single day (whether or not you are given any), you will end up fairing better not only in uni, but when you start working.

I pretty much goofed around in my final year of uni, because by that point, I was absolutely sick of it.
Likewise, when I first started working, I did what needed to be done and then went home and pretended that none of it was real.
Taka would come home every single night and either work or do some sort of upskilling. As a result, he shot far ahead of me.

It's not until I have had the opportunity to work an a projects entirely alone that I have started to appreciate things. I now sit and read about design patterns and such because it now has direct relevance to me. It's not some airy fairy thing that the lecturer harped on about.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#3

Post by Leeward »

I would like to give this a thoughtful response, so I'll revisit this topic when it's not one in the morning.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#4

Post by Obsidian »

Engineering Companies want to see mostly these traits in their prospective employees:

Technical Ability -> The higher you score in varsity overall the better because almost all employers ask for your academic record nowadays. Simple to do difficult to achieve just study hard for this one. I would not say this is of the utmost importance but if you are tied with someone for a position it will give you the edge if your marks are better.

Sociability (This one is very important!)-> Engineering outside of university is 99% teamwork. Employers often look for engineers who can prove they play nice with others, engineers who show good leadership capability, engineers who are able to motivate their comrades and engineers who can take responsibility. Unfortunately due to universities becoming only focused on getting your actual degree rather than any student life there is not as much volunteer projects you can take part in (like I helped build and was in charge of building a parade float for my first three years) so you are going to have to look around campus for internship opportunities and holiday jobs to give yourself some experiance. Employers will often want to know what difficult decisions did you have to make, how did you handle them and how you contributed to the team in extreme detail. Having many such experiences to make examples of is pretty useful. Luckily, at least for me anyway, engineering degrees involve tons of interesting group projects like I designed rocket parts and built a concrete paddle ski. Group projects you can use as examples don't have to be industry focused but should preferably revolve around some kind of engineering practice.

Problem Solving -> This one is not really something you can study for, you either can solve problems or you can only copy other people's solutions. You should learn this through your degree if your university is up to scratch. Employers seem to love giving us aptitude tests during interviews. Last one I went to they made me do spatial diagram puzzles and weirdly worded basic algebra. You can practice these tests before an interview in case they ask something similar but good employers will often just ask you an open ended question and see what your approach would be to solve it.

Achievements -> Employers want to see that you can win at something or that you have some drive. This is where all those numerous academic rewards look nice and the only time anyone cares that you got a cum laude. It does not have to be academic though either, I put down my martial arts achievements here as well and it seems to work out fine. So if you are good at something try and be great at it, win some competitions and show the employers that you can set your mind to a goal and achieve it.

Practical Experience (Also Important) -> Employers want to see that you know a bit about what you are doing. Now there is always the joke "I cant get experiance because they only want to hire people with experiance" but as a student you have a lot of opportunity with holiday work. Most companies will post openings during the year on notice boards or on the faculty website so keep and eye out and try do some in the field you would like to work in one day. Also useful in that you can see what type of work you like and dislike. Having a little work experiance shows that you have an interest in the field and don't need as much time to become useful to the company as other fresh graduates.

Hobbies -> Now and then employers are interested in what your hobbies are, having a couple shows you are not just one dimensional and are not just a robot. We have these most of the time anyways though so just keep in mind you might have to talk about them someday.

Those are the important points off the top of my head. Achieving a good resume is pretty straightforward if you get yourself involved and (good marks aside) getting some of these traits down can be quite fun. All this stuff will just land you the interview though, getting the job will normally involve some one on one time with the prospective employer and you got to have that scaly charm ready ;).

Just don't rek yourself in getting a good resume though, university should be somewhat enjoyable. Getting a cum laude is nice and all but realistically it is not an easy feat, especially in engineering. Getting a B average will put you above like 80% of other graduates anyways.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#5

Post by SnowDragon »

I did a different degree, but I think that much of the advise stays the same. I just got my head down and ran at the wall until it cracked - But there are some things you can do to make it easier when you graduate.

Start making professional connections as early as you can, and make sure you have a reasonably clean academic record. It helped my land my first post - Without preexisting connections I wouldn't be working now :)

As obsidian said, sociability and problem solving skills are really important. The rest you kinda pick up along the way.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#6

Post by Galahad »

Thank you all so much for your insightful responses! :D I really appreciate it.

To Sev: Interesting! For many students, I would have imagined it to be the inverse - they 'goof off' in their first year and then, when they realize they are close to failing, become more diligent and responsible. Yet, you have shared an important lesson with me: treat university work as if they were assignments from your employer. I had not viewed it in that way before. Thank you. :)

To Leeward: No problem, Miss Moo! ^^ If you choose to do so, I would be happy to read whatever experience you have to share.

To Obsidian: Now that is a treasury of insight! Thank you. :D You highlighted what I believe to be a significant point - social skills are just as important as academic credentials, if not even more so. I am highly introverted, so social interaction can be daunting for me (the occasional social anxiety I experience is no help, either). Yet, my EQ and sociability can always be improved through concerted effort. Another gem I found in your words is the answer to the hireability versus experience paradox ("no-one hires me because I do not have experience, I do not have experience because no-one hires me"), which had been weighing on my mind. University can be a platform for gleaning practical, hands-on experience, as well as theoretical learning. I shall look into clubs and societies for engineering students. Thank you!

To SnowDragon: Thank you for sharing. :D Though your degree may be different to mine, I am sure many of the characteristics employers look for in employees is more or less universal. The important point I gleaned from your post is the significance of professional connections and contacts. I shall be certain to speak to and meet as many people in the engineering fields as I can!
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#7

Post by Sev »

I think that I must have burned out over the course of my first two years. I did extremely well, even getting on the Dean's Merit List. By the time that 3rd year came around, I was tired and depressed.

I hate myself on a near daily basis my performance in 3rd year. Every interview I've gone to, I've been asked about the disparity in performance.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#8

Post by Tocs »

The advice that I tend to follow given to me from other people is to not take it as a joke, go to every lecture, do all the work,actually STUDY. Even in first year, and you won't have to worry. Just do your best, sleep plenty, eat well, make good friends and don't let distractions get to you
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#9

Post by Randall »

Sev wrote:I think that I must have burned out over the course of my first two years. I did extremely well, even getting on the Dean's Merit List. By the time that 3rd year came around, I was tired and depressed.

I hate myself on a near daily basis my performance in 3rd year. Every interview I've gone to, I've been asked about the disparity in performance.
Its Aspergers.. been down this road myself many times before.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#10

Post by Cape_F0X »

I remember reading this article shortly after it came out. Hope it helps.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#11

Post by Galahad »

To Tocs: Simple yet practical advice. Thank you. :) Surprisingly, many students are terribly imbalanced when they first enter university. For me, personally, I procrastinated and lazed about, and the consequences were undeniable.

To Cape: I read the whole article - a thoughtful bit of insight! Thank you for sharing it, Cape. It dispels the myth that engineering students, by necessity rather than habit, forego sleep and social lives just to study enough to pass. ;) Poor time management and incorrectly-ordered priorities are at the root of the problem, rather than an unwritten rule.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#12

Post by Obsidian »

Unless it was end of semester exams I always got enough sleep. Granted I did not get straight A`s either.

Study smart and try get old tests from the previous years if possible. I wish I had not lost my first three years collection of study material and projects, I could have sold it to people for a profit :P.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#13

Post by Sudan Red »

On "going overseas" - I am going to tell you that it isn't easy at all. I have ten years of experience in my highly specialised field & have held a managerial post for 3 years.

The UK didn't care.

In order to get a job in the UK, you have to have a work permit. This required (in my field) that I had to be resident in the UK for 2 years continuously. Being in the UK for 2 years meant that I'd have to work there... which I wasn't allowed to do until I had been there for 2 years. Infinite loop of NOPE.

The other option was to have a pre-existing job offer which is unlikely to happen for someone fresh out of university UNLESS you struck a mega-lucky internship.

Echoing what someone else said here - start making connections now! Research companies you'd like to work for and ask if they offer holiday work etc. Marks matter, so study hard! My academic record is still being requested 12years after my last graduation! Lastly, don't be afraid to change your plans. I wanted to be a "scientist" when I grew up! I found out instead how petty & competitive academia was... which was pretty disappointing. Luckily, my qualification met the bare minimum requirements for the career I have now. A career I never even considered because it didn't even exist while I was studying! BOOYAH!
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#14

Post by Leeward »

Sudan Red wrote:Lastly, don't be afraid to change your plans. I wanted to be a "scientist" when I grew up! I found out instead how petty & competitive academia was... which was pretty disappointing.
Same here. I went through a year-long depressive episode of soul-searching to realise that I didn't want to live my while life in academia. If I had realised this sooner, I would have saved myself a lot of pain and confusion.
Luckily, my qualification met the bare minimum requirements for the career I have now. A career I never even considered because it didn't even exist while I was studying! BOOYAH!
Exact opposite here. I went into a highly specialised and cutting-edge field that was supposedly very lucrative, but I later figured out I wasn't interested in it as a career and turned to my backup major instead. I'm much happier for it. I think.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#15

Post by Galahad »

To Sudan: Thank you for the warning - it helps put my goals into perspective. This was a problem, and so I talked with my father, who is the chief technical officer for an I.T company based in Johannesburg (ergo, he has lots of knowledge about employment opportunities and job-seeking). He made me aware of the difficulties of finding a job overseas, and a solution he proposed involved becoming a contract engineer - that way, rather than permanently residing overseas, I instead work in several locations in other countries over the span of a few years. With that experience and the contacts I then build, the option of moving overseas and settling permanently would be far more attainable.

Thank you also for highlighting the need to be adaptable and change one's goal if it is unrealistic. Mechanical engineering is still a useful field and yields moderately good employment opportunities (I may specialize in aerospace). At the moment, I see no need to change gears (... mechanical engineering pun intended), but I shall try my best to be open-minded. :)

I am the type of person who prefers to plan extensively, down to the most minute of details, rather than have a vision and adapt to the present. This is both a strength and a weakness, I suppose.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#16

Post by Sudan Red »

I can tell you're a Planner! You will definitely make a success of anything you put your mind to.
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Re: Advice For University Students?

#17

Post by Galahad »

Trust me, it is as much a curse as it is a gift. :P Adapting is harder for planners.

Please, do not think I am overlooking your advice. Your experience absolutely dwarfs mine, and I simply cannot afford to be foolish enough to ignore it. :)

I am just weighing every word and hypothetical scenario in my head...

Damn, I sound selfish, don't I? I am sorry. This thread should not just be about me.
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