Dairy farm excursion...

[Adagio]

Day 1 of my Dairy Farm Excursion.

Ok. So I decided to make a thread for this.
I’ll do this in a journal format.

Things I learned today.
The machines that do the milking, are pretty advanced! I mean sheesh!
It mixes its own cleaning solution!

I haven’t seen any cows being milked yet… That’ll happen tomorrow.

The milk they supply, goes to a big dairy distributor, they then go on to sell them to various processors, like the blue and green Spar brand long life milk, and Woolworths.

As you probably guessed there are many regulations and such that the farm has to pass to be able to sell the milk. I’ll ask more about that. But I have seen the filters the video talked about. It’s 1 filter. There is no blood. It had really, REALLY little in it.

Furthermore. The cows are treated like royalty here…

Another thing I’d like to comment.
Do you know what the LEGAL process is to dispose of an injured cow?
The LEGAL way to do it, is take that injured cow, Hoist it up on a truck with a dozen other cattle trampling on it. Drive it with its broken leg to the slaughterhouse, then they will hoist it up by its feet, and kill it.
That’s the way farmers are bound by law to do it.

My dad’s nephew refuses to do it this way.
He does it the “illegal way” and kills the cow here, then takes the carcass to the slaughterhouse, which is the way it would have been done before all this bullsh#t regulations and crap…

Please… If there is anything you would like me to ask specifically.
Don’t hesitate!

[Raven Song]

I know the law is very shitty about animal disposal. Legally to dispose of a horse you HAVE to donate it's body to the lion farm.

Does your uncle and them do the pasteurising on site? or is it done at a processing/packaging plant? I've always wanted to know that part of the process because I know the tetrapak machines are mother big and fancy, so I don't suppose the producers have the machinery on site.

[Adagio]

QUESTION 1.) Is Pasturising done on site? If not. Where is it done.
I'll get back to you!

[Raven Song]

question 2) if it is, do you pack on site as well?
question3) if you do, do you pack using tetrabricks or combiblocks

don't aske question 3... you might sound like a spy

[Adagio]

Day 2 of my Dairy farm Excursion.

The day started at about 5:30. Not too early at least.
I saw the milking process. It was all over before you guys had breakfast. They disinfect the teats and place the machines on.
By 8:30 everything was done. They let in the pregnant cows and let them feed.
Then went on to artificially inseminate the necessary calves.
It’s painless. And over quickly.
Contrary to popular belief. You can choose to a degree if you want a male or a female…
About 80% of the calves born here are female.
The male calves are then killed at 3 days, and turned into pink polonies… That is a little… Yeah… But such is farming…

I saw something else that was… Disturbing… GROSS!!!
Did you know, sometimes the calve dies inside the mother cow?
Of course. A stillborn. Correct?
Sometimes, the calve isn’t born…
There is no way of knowing that it’s still in there, and dead…
At least not until it starts smelling…
The only way to save the cow, is to reach in, and take it out…

It rotted inside of it… It. Was. Putrid.
It was already putrefied! All that came out was slurry, and bones… not a pretty sight.
But you know what. The cow, stood, still…. Because she knew we were there to help her…

They KNOW these things…

Another thing I learned was the function of the filter…

Sometimes, on rare occasions, the cups fall into some feces. And though it’s washed out, id does get sucked into the tank… Not much, and the filter then filters this out.

Also. Apparently South Africa has higher standards about cells in the milk.
Here the legal limit is 30 cells.

Another thing that the video COMPLETELY overdone, is the life expectancy of dairy cows.
The eldest they have here, has been milked for 13 years now, and is showing no signs of giving up.
And the have very great lives compared to other cattle.
The graze all day, then get milked for 10 minutes once a day…
And are fed the entire time…
The even willingly go into the stalls, each on their own spot, every time…

Yes. Their calves are taken away once they are born. Yes, they don’t much like it… And that is sad…
But the calves are taken care of pretty good…
Raven asked if the milk was pasteurized here. No.
They only produce raw milk. Woodlands picks it up.
They pasteurize, distribute and package it…

I took lots of pictures today!

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Contrary to popular belief. You can choose to a degree if you want a male or a female…
About 80% of the calves born here are female.

Did you ask how that is done?

[Contrast]

I saw something else that was… Disturbing… GROSS!!!
Did you know, sometimes the calve dies inside the mother cow?
Of course. A stillborn. Correct?
Sometimes, the calve isn’t born…
There is no way of knowing that it’s still in there, and dead…
At least not until it starts smelling…
The only way to save the cow, is to reach in, and take it out…

It rotted inside of it… It. Was. Putrid.

I did a lot of research on pregnancy for Ander, and what you just described can happen to people, too. Many women died that way before the advent of modern medicine.

[Adagio]

Did you ask how that is done?

Yes. The male sperm cells are faster swimmers, and the females are more endurance runners.
When the cow is in heat, in nature, the egg starts out close to the ovaries, and them moves to the cervix. To the faster she gets impregnated, the better the chances for a female, the later, the better the chances for a male.

So by inserting the tube deeper, they can determine gender...

I did a lot of research on pregnancy for Ander, and what you just described can happen to people, too. Many women died that way before the advent of modern medicine.

I remember ed that specifically when I saw that...

[Raven Song]

i envy you. For four years I did the report on Milk in South Africa and I always wanted to see the source and learn about the market from the actual producers and not the likes of Woodlands and Clover etc.

so cool

[Leeward]

Yes. Their calves are taken away once they are born. Yes, they don’t much like it… And that is sad…
But the calves are taken care of pretty good…

While I understand why it gets done, and that the way they do it is as humane as possible, I still have an issue with the practice in general. It's much more traumatic than most people realise, because cows actually do have very high social intelligence, but somehow they don't come across as intelligent due to their docility, so "they don't much like it" is quite the understatement. Ask any mother whose child was abducted or died during or shortly after childbirth.

Maybe I'm taking offence to it more than is rational because I'm a woman, but I mean... Imagine yourself being kept permanently pregnant, possibly against your will, purely for the purpose of being milked every day, only to have every single one of your neonates literally ripped from the teat within 24 hours of birth and have the process repeated? Would a life of luxury be enough to compensate for such an exploited existence? That actually reminds me of the "five wives" in Mad Max: Fury Road, it's pretty much the exact same concept.

This leads me to a series of related questions, but please keep in mind that these about about the standard practice in general, not how they specifically do it.
> Don't mammals keep lactating as long as they keep being milked, without necessarily being pregnant? [related article about human mothers breastfeeding older kids]
> Is continued milking post-weaning not as efficient as lactation during pregnancy? Why?
> Hypothetically, were the calves left to suckle and wean naturally and the mother continued to be milked thereafter, approximately how much milk (i.e. money) would be "lost" to avoid the traumatic separation? Can this be expressed as a percentage of the milk yield within the cow's lifespan?

By the way, I really appreciate you documenting this Adagio, thank you. Reading this gives me hope that there may be some decent, considerate humans left in the world.

[Adagio]

> Don't mammals keep lactating as long as they keep being milked, without necessarily being pregnant? [related article about human mothers breastfeeding older kids]
> Is continued milking post-weaning not as efficient as lactation during pregnancy? Why?
> Hypothetically, were the calves left to suckle and wean naturally and the mother continued to be milked thereafter, approximately how much milk (i.e. money) would be "lost" to avoid the traumatic separation? Can this be expressed as a percentage of the milk yield within the cow's lifespan?

By the way, I really appreciate you documenting this Adagio, thank you. Reading this gives me hope that there may be some decent, considerate humans left in the world.

Ok... We're leaving early today... But I'll try asking...

[Adagio]

> Don't mammals keep lactating as long as they keep being milked, without necessarily being pregnant? [related article about human mothers breastfeeding older kids]
> Is continued milking post-weaning not as efficient as lactation during pregnancy? Why?
> Hypothetically, were the calves left to suckle and wean naturally and the mother continued to be milked thereafter, approximately how much milk (i.e. money) would be "lost" to avoid the traumatic separation? Can this be expressed as a percentage of the milk yield within the cow's lifespan?

I managed to sneak in your question while saying goodbye...

They keep it as natural as possible.
Only Artificially Inseminating cows when they come into heat.
This happens once every 14 months. 1 year milking, 2 months rest.

They do not take away the calves immediately, they let them stay with the mothers for a week, the first milk isn't really milk anyway, its a kind of thick bloody milk. You can actually buy it, it's popular among "native African people", called "Bies" ore something...

So. The taking away of calves isn't as "traumatic" as the video made it out to be...

And it's done for a purpose as well... Rejection of calves is pretty common, and the mother would often kick the calf injuring it, breaking it's jaw...
Of course, she wouldn't have said that in her video now would she?

Now, your question.

1.) Not really in cows. It happens, but isn't really feasible.
2.) As stated above. No... It's not financially feasable.
3.) About a 50% difference. And they only get paid R3 a liter, and are losing money at the moment.
So no, unfortunately, that isn't an option.

By the way, I really appreciate you documenting this Adagio, thank you. Reading this gives me hope that there may be some decent, considerate humans left in the world.

Thanks Lee! That's what I was hoping to achieve.

Oh yeah! I forgot to mention the cow we saved.

It happens a lot that the cow gets "melksiek" Witch is basically a mineral imbalance.
It kills a cow within a few hours.
We put a needle into it's jugular, administered a glucose solution, and it was on it's legs in the next half an hour! It was really something! I hope to visit the farm again soon... I really wish it was closer.

[Raven Song]

That first milk is super important to the young calf. It's called colostrum (humans produce it too) and is high in nutrients and has a higher fat content (particularly in cows and horses). it's usually a thick yellowy gross color and texture

I know in horses if the foal doesn't get its first drink of colostrum they stand a good chance of not making it...

there's a company that has looked into using it as HIV medication...

[Adagio]

The milking stalls:

The cows come in, they each know their place, and they each go to their specific place.
they get fed to their body mass, and it's all computerized.

Antiseptic:

The teats are covered in an antiseptic solution to keep them both hygienic, and to prevent diseases to them.

Milking:

Milking happens in like 5 minutes. It's really fast. They milked all 600 cows(There are 800, but the rest are on "holiday") in an hour 45 min.

View from below.

Cleaning:

Hygienic conditions is very important...
Everything is cleaned after milking. Cows aren't the most clean animals...
The machine also cleans itself, it's all pretty impressive...

[Adagio]

Cow says MOO!

Haha! Was taking pics and she pulled this face!

Artificial Insemination in progress...

It does look uncomfortable. But she didn't move an inch...

Implements used for AI.

I couldn't get a picture of the sperm though, since that was resting in a tub of Liquid Nitrogen...

[Raven Song]

from what i've seen in both sheep and horses it isn't really that uncomfortable. the animal hardly reacts and most of the time if there is a reaction it's more because of something the vet/manager did...

[Leeward]

Indeed. I mean you'd be pretty disappointed with a, um... male attribute of that diameter, so I can't imagine they'd feel much. I'm guessing the part they find uncomfortable is having their tails held up and lady bits spread out for aim.

Was it raining at the time? Their paddocks must be pretty muddy for them to track in all that muck on their hooves.

[Adagio]

Indeed. I mean you'd be pretty disappointed with a, um... male attribute of that diameter, so I can't imagine they'd feel much. I'm guessing the part they find uncomfortable is having their tails held up and lady bits spread out for aim.

LOL!!!
Also... The entire arm is inserted in their anus, to get the correct placement to better conntrol the gender.

Was it raining at the time? Their paddocks must be pretty muddy for them to track in all that muck on their hooves.

... It's not mud...
I trudged trough it with my High Tech tekkies with open sides! I hope you guys are greatfull!

[Leeward]

Indeed. I mean you'd be pretty disappointed with a, um... male attribute of that diameter, so I can't imagine they'd feel much. I'm guessing the part they find uncomfortable is having their tails held up and lady bits spread out for aim.

LOL!!!
Also... The entire arm is inserted in their anus, to get the correct placement to better conntrol the gender.

Okay yeah that does not sound fun at all. Unless you're into that, which I doubt they are.

Was it raining at the time? Their paddocks must be pretty muddy for them to track in all that muck on their hooves.

... It's not mud...
I trudged trough it with my High Tech tekkies with open sides! I hope you guys are greatfull!

I call bullshit... sorry, cowshit. Damn, I knew it was runny but wow, what a splash. I just noticed now that there's none of it on their front hooves. That doesn't seem natural though, what are they fed?

[Adagio]

I call bullshit... sorry, cowshit. Damn, I knew it was runny but wow, what a splash. I just noticed now that there's none of it on their front hooves. That doesn't seem natural though, what are they fed?

A healthy cow's is runny... The more solid, you know that the grass they're eating isn't nutrient enough...

They graze most of the day in fields of Cocoyu(I have no idea on the spelling of that) But they add some Chicory as a nutrient booster.
Then in the milk stall, they are fed ground corn...

[Raven Song]

Why are they artificially inseminating up the butt...

I don't wanna be funny but most of us have seen that video about the whole loophole with sex... and we all know that aint how you get preggers

So then I went and googled it and it all makes sense now and now I'm grossed out and need to wash my eyeballs...

[Leeward]

I call bullshit... sorry, cowshit. Damn, I knew it was runny but wow, what a splash. I just noticed now that there's none of it on their front hooves. That doesn't seem natural though, what are they fed?

A healthy cow's is runny... The more solid, you know that the grass they're eating isn't nutrient enough...

They graze most of the day in fields of Cocoyu(I have no idea on the spelling of that) But they add some Chicory as a nutrient booster.
Then in the milk stall, they are fed ground corn...

No sure I wasn't expecting it to be solid like dog poop, but I mean when the splat makes bits of it fly all the way to their hocks, that seems a bit extreme. That does seem like a pretty balanced diet though. (It's Kikuyu grass, by the way )