Hunting and Furries

[Brutallis]

Just something that I have been wondering about for a while now.

How do you guys find Hunting, like game hunting? I've always wondered how other furs felt about it.

[Cape_F0X]

As long as it's a clean kill.
Not killing females with or about to have calves.
And not getting frustrated/impatient which leads to you shooting the first thing you see.

[Brutallis]

Clear and straight to the point, I like it.
I always thought, (without reason) that hunting would be a very hot topic amongst furries.

[Cape_F0X]

The other thing is it's also balances.
If there is over hunting, the game becomes more thinned out and difficult for hunters to find, putting them off. The hunting dies down and the game repopulates.

[Leeward]

We've had this discussion before, but I'm happy to have it again. It depends on what you're hunting, and how. My view on hunting is largely utilitarian.

If it's an endangered species, I have a problem with it. Just because you're rich should not give you the "privilege" of killing a rhinoceros.

If you are hunting purely for "sport" (a term I find extremely ironic because it's very unsportsmanlike to just drive up to a lion and shoot it in the face) and are not going to use at least some significant portion of the carcass (meat, pelt, etc. i.e. not just a trophy), I have a problem with it. Canned hunting, I'm looking at you. Culling is an obvious exception here.

If you cause undue suffering by chasing, traumatising, mutilating, or any other means, I have a problem with it. Fox hunting, whale harpooning, elephant poaching and some other things fall under this category.

Other than that, I have no issue with hunting. I do not find it unethical to humanely kill a relatively common species for the purpose of eating it and/or using other parts of it for a useful purpose. In fact I find it more humane than the way most farm animals are treated.

[Brutallis]

We've had this discussion before, but I'm happy to have it again.

Curse my lazy ass for not bothering to open that topic, I will openly admit that I saw it and just thought it was a discussion on the lion and poaching in general.

I apologise.

[Leeward]

No no don't worry about it, that thread was dead anyway. Always nice to have a fresh perspective.

[Sev]

I never even came across that thread. I pretty much share Leeward's perspective.

I also don't think that hunting is anymore of a sport than hiking or camping is; that's not to say that it didn't take skill, but the animal hardly has a sporting chance.

[Cape_F0X]

The only difference is I shoot left.

[Sev]

You're the southpaw equivalent of a vegan - get out!

[Cape_F0X]

Calm down, it's just because I can't wink left.
Handguns are both eyes and paint ball guns are hip fired.
And I just needed something to personalize the picture.
Will not bring it up again.

[Sev]

You were not supposed to take that comment seriously. That's just my sense of humor. Please continue...

But the irony that that fox was probably killed by the exact rifle is not lost on me.

[Cape_F0X]

Nah... he's Photoshoped in... right? :_(

[Sev]

Those rabbits must be as well, then.

[Cape_F0X]

They reproduce like rabbits and will not be missed.
Vulpes vulpes on the other hand.

"Goodnight, sweet prince and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest"

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Well, pretty much what I said before. Killing sentient beings is unethical.

[Obsidian]

I like hunting as an alternative way to get meat. My brother and father do it quite regularly where I am somewhat of a coward that could never pull the trigger but enjoys the resulting meat.

My dad has only ever made clean kills in the past 5 years and my brother has wounded an animal once (which resulted in a 6 hour long chase which he is not proud of). Considering they waste as little as possible when it comes down to turning them into something more edible I believe it to be a perfectly acceptable past time.

And game biltong is so much better.

[Adagio]

Firstly... Ehem... LOOOOOOL!
(Inside joke between Cape_FOX and I)

Myself? I'm a hunter... I shot a few things... But every time, it was "sportsman like". I don't believe in driving after them. I don't believe in shooting from a vehicle.

I agree mostly with Lee here...
If one hunt's for a purpose, I have no problem with hunting...
If you use the hide, meat etc.

If you hunt for leisure... I HATE it when people kill leopards for "fun"...
I support all the "save the X" campaigns...

TRUE. Sometimes these animals become a nuisance. But there ARE other alternatives to killing...

For example. A family friend of ours owns a game farm. The leopard has ensured a negative growth to the impala population... It pains me... But it's a necessary evil...

Personally I prefer hunting with a camera...

[Cape_F0X]

No animals where harmed in the making of this trophy

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Yeah... this is what that reminds me of.

[Cape_F0X]

Do you meen it's trippy? I deliberately chose the most decorative one.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Sorry! Wrong clip. That was what I watched afterwards. x.x This was what I intended.

[Cape_F0X]

I LOLed so hard! Very fitting.

[Raven Song]

Considering I just spent three works as a fundraiser for WWF I genuinely don't agree with hunting...

BUT...

I have a major problem in my conscience because a large portion of conservation funds come from the hunting industry... in fact I think I read somewhere a while back that over 40% of funds come from hunting... that's... sad...

I don't agree with hunting because even if you're walking on foot you still have an unfair advantage over the animal unless you're going after them with some nicely sharpened knives...

[Adagio]

Considering I just spent three works as a fundraiser for WWF I genuinely don't agree with hunting...

BUT...

I have a major problem in my conscience because a large portion of conservation funds come from the hunting industry... in fact I think I read somewhere a while back that over 40% of funds come from hunting... that's... sad...

I don't agree with hunting because even if you're walking on foot you still have an unfair advantage over the animal unless you're going after them with some nicely sharpened knives...

Nope... They are made for the bush... They have fancy camouflage, they have better smell, not to mention speed...

What we have is brains... We used that brains to develop technology. And that technology gives us a chance...

[Obsidian]

If you want to protect something make it profitable, hunting lodges get lots of money for giving hunters an area to walk around in the sun with khakis to shoot a couple of buck. So they make game reserves to supply the demand and in my opinion is leads to a better life for wildlife as they get their own space and allows people to take part in something they enjoy legally and hopefully humanely. Of course canned hunting is still a thing but that is mostly poor management on our governments part.

I do not think rhino poaching would have been such a problem if they had just cut of rhino horns like they started doing back some time ago avoid poaching and sold it. A well run business employing some tried and tested predatory pricing could easily undercut any poachers. Also rhino's on reserves without horns are equally unprofitable for the most part. Again poor management and unethical business practice could once again create a problem but provided the government are not too stupid its easier to control. I am sure its a bit too late now though

I think there was something on game reserves doing more or less the same thing to prevent ivory poaching but I am bad with keeping up with the news some years so am open to being corrected.

I cant say I am a good business man (I prefer my binary and eccentric professors) so these are mostly opinions I agree on with some other more business minded individuals I know.

[Adagio]

If you want to protect something make it profitable, hunting lodges get lots of money for giving hunters an area to walk around in the sun with khakis to shoot a couple of buck. So they make game reserves to supply the demand and in my opinion is leads to a better life for wildlife as they get their own space and allows people to take part in something they enjoy legally and hopefully humanely. Of course canned hunting is still a thing but that is mostly poor management on our governments part.

I do not think rhino poaching would have been such a problem if they had just cut of rhino horns like they started doing back some time ago avoid poaching and sold it. A well run business employing some tried and tested predatory pricing could easily undercut any poachers. Also rhino's on reserves without horns are equally unprofitable for the most part. Again poor management and unethical business practice could once again create a problem but provided the government are not too stupid its easier to control. I am sure its a bit too late now though

I think there was something on game reserves doing more or less the same thing to prevent ivory poaching but I am bad with keeping up with the news some years so am open to being corrected.

I cant say I am a good business man (I prefer my binary and eccentric professors) so these are mostly opinions I agree on with some other more business minded individuals I know.

Agreed 100%

If rhino farmers was allowed to safely harvest ans sell their rhino's horns, they'd be able to afford better security to protect the species.

I believe the law is changing to allow this now...

[Raven Song]

Adagio I'm not really gonna comment any further here because I will never agree with you on the whole "hunting is okay because they were made for the bush and we have guns".

Working with WWF I've seen the numbers. Not only have I seen the numbers but I have also seen the devastation. Not only have I seen the devastation but I also know that the law that you are referring too is a tactic to try and get the market flooded with "cheap ethically harvested horn" and I can tell you know that makes no difference.

Did you know the reason why Rhino horn had a renewed interest was because of two reasons:
1) A Vietnamese Cabinet Minister came out to the public and announced that he had been cured of his cancer by eating powdered Rhino Horn. This led to an increase in not only those wanting to prevent any and all medical ailments from hangovers to cancer buying the horn, but also the horn became a status symbol in the ever increasing middle upper class of Vietnam and China.
2) CITES figured that if they opened x amount of legal hunts back in I think it was 2010, they could flood the market with cheap horns that had been safely removed etc etc. You know what that did... increased the value of horn that had been poached. In fact there are places in Vietnam where you can purchase "Poached Horn" for as much as five times the cost of regular horn.

Here are some scary figures for you:

In 2007, 13 Rhino's were poached in the entire of the African continent.
In 2013, over 1100 rhino's were poached IN SOUTH AFRICA ALONE.

That's an increase of over 9000% in six years.

BUT

This isn't a thread about why Raven thinks that any and all hunting of Rhino's is bad:

I have many friends who hunt. I am quite happy for said friends to go into the bush, in camo (As you yourself explained) and, as long as it is clean and done as quickly as possible, hunt an animal like an impala, a wildebeest etc. They aren't endangered, killing one isn't going to destroy the species, and as long as you're like my friends family and use absolutely every part of the animal in case you disrespect it, I'm not going to hold a grudge against you.
And you strike me as the sort that is like my friends.

I don't like hunting, I don't agree with it for the most part. But if it's done in as kind a way as is possible, I'll turn the other way.

[Adagio]

Wall of text(Yest, I read it all, just not gonna quote it all)

I would just like to raise a point here real quick...
How many of you have been to the KNP recently...

Have you seen the devastation the elephants are causing?

This is because bunny-huggers decided it was "Unethical" to reduce the populations of the herds and signed a petition against it...

They are now overpopulated, and complete areas have no trees left...

I agree with you Raven... But if it saves at least a single rhino. Then it's already worth it..

PS. Every single part goes to use, yes.
Even the horns are used in the gun shop.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Have you seen the devastation the elephants are causing?

This is because bunny-huggers decided it was "Unethical" to reduce the populations of the herds and signed a petition against it...

They are now overpopulated, and complete areas have no trees left...

Way to oversimplify. I imagine there was a petition against a cull, not against reducing the population. It's totally possible to relocate animals but it's more effort and many people don't think it's worth it because it doesn't benefit them.

Further the reason you get that sort of overpopulation is because wild animals are now kept in enclosures that limit their movement and hamper natural mechanisms to control population levels. There's been too much interference because people believe their entitled to the land and every other species is an invader.