Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

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Rakuen Growlithe
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Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#1

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

"Why should I respect your stupid opinion?" is the title of a really interesting article on 3QuarksDaily. (It's long, read it anyway.) It deals with the notion of respect in the context of different ideas. So, what does it mean to respect and idea, can you disagree with an idea and still respect the person and do all beliefs deserve respect?

This is a very important topic both because aspects of it come up on the forum from time to time and because it plays a large role in the world, particularly around issues of free speech. There is an alarming trend among university students to try to ban anyone who has a differing opinion, often claiming it violates their "safe space." Or, especially, the idea of respect is used to buttress religion when it's truth claims are questioned and, in far too many countries, this is enshrined in blasphemy laws.

Those defences are often there because questioning can hurt. As it stated there:
More plausible is the principle that people's beliefs be treated with respect in the sense that they should not be ridiculed, scorned or insulted. Here the constraint is only on the manner in which they are criticized. But although the principle sounds reasonable, it is surprisingly difficult to defend as a general rule. To be sure, we may agree that we should not cause anyone unnecessary pain; and insulting someone's cherished beliefs may do this. But sometimes the pain caused is not gratuitous but an unavoidable consequence of something that really needs to be said. /.../ Moreover, rhetorical freedom is an important aspect of the right to free speech. Very often, the critique of a belief is more powerful and more persuasive because of the way ridicule, irony, sarcasm, and wit are employed. Think of the contributions to important debates made by the likes of Swift, Voltaire, Hume, Paine, Nietzsche, or Mencken.
The black and white lines that so many depend on quickly blur to grey. For some it's easy to say, "Don't question their belief, it's doing no harm." Which can be true! But, then, when someone's belief is doing harm, such as gay conversion therapy following from someone's religious beliefs, we have a problem. There is no philosophical difference between criticising the one set of beliefs and criticising the other. Furthermore, even if we cannot see harm, it does not mean there is. Holding untrue beliefs, however innocuous, can make it easier to accept more insidious untruths.

There is a teacher of critical thinking at UCT who once wrote something on the same topic that always stuck with me.
Alternately, what we often see is a relativistic reluctance to be critical at all, where we weasel our way through life saying things like “everyone is entitled to their opinion” – without remembering that opinions help shape actions, and that we should therefore care deeply about our opinions, and those of others.
There's a certain irony to it all, at least in my mind. It almost seems that letting everyone have their cherished beliefs is a rather belittling way to act. It implies that those beliefs are meaningless and can be discarded, whereas to challenge them recognises that they are important and have value.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
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Hargan
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

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Post by Hargan »

They way I've always viewed it, is quite simple:

Respecting your opinions does not mean I have to agree with you

I've lived that as a kind of personal self motto, to the point where I have even created times where I will argue against someone's beliefs, even if I agree 100% with them, just to hear, just to understand their points of views, and how they arrive to the conclusion.

Is arguing disrespecting? No.
Is trying to show other points of view disrespecting? Not if done in a non-deterministic method ( anti- "my way or the highway kind of thing").
In fact, the only way I found to disrespect someone's opinion, in my viewpoint, is to disregard it completely. To ignore it. And to force another viewpoint in its place.

In the way I see life, that is one of the few cardinal sins anyone can do, is to break like that.

Please note: When the issue of facts vs opinions comes into play, well... then we get a different story. This point of view I'm bringing forth only deals with opinions and personal beliefs.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#3

Post by jacojerb »

I just believe that, if something doesn't hurt anyone or anything, it can not possibly be considered wrong. People may believe what they will. I respect all beliefs. I just don't respect all actions

Believing that murder is okay... While questionable, is not wrong. Committing murder is wrong...

Believing that being gay is wrong, is okay. Telling gay people that they are wrong, is wrong

I know people's opinion shapes their actions, but if they can keep their opinion without doing harm to others, they should be allowed to believe anything they wish
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#4

Post by Cape_F0X »

I know people's opinion shapes their actions, but if they can keep their opinion without doing harm to others, they should be allowed to believe anything they wish
The opinions and actions thing is so true. You only need a few extroverts (who are more likely to resort to action) to cause a scene and make tempers flare.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#5

Post by Tocs »

People are strange. Honestly I see it as everyone's opinion is correct until proven wrong with fact. And if there is no fact to It (like what is your favourite colour) then there is no wrong answer. If someone were to disagree with you then so what? It shouldn't change anything. It all depends on perspective and personal values. It is not disrespectful to disagree on an opinion..again.. so many different scenarios and all
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Rakuen Growlithe
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#6

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Hargan wrote:I've lived that as a kind of personal self motto, to the point where I have even created times where I will argue against someone's beliefs, even if I agree 100% with them, just to hear, just to understand their points of views, and how they arrive to the conclusion.
I've done that once or twice. It's sometimes been interesting. I've also sometimes been really disappointed that they couldn't construct a decent argument for something that should be obvious.
Hargan wrote:Please note: When the issue of facts vs opinions comes into play, well... then we get a different story. This point of view I'm bringing forth only deals with opinions and personal beliefs.
They do mix though. Because we don't have perfect knowledge and we can interpret the same evidence in a different way.
jacojerb wrote:I just believe that, if something doesn't hurt anyone or anything, it can not possibly be considered wrong. People may believe what they will. I respect all beliefs. I just don't respect all actions
Are you using wrong here to mean incorrect or undesirable? Cause the belief that squirrels are electric pink and the source of all gravity is not harmful to anyone but it can certainly be considered wrong.
jacojerb wrote:I know people's opinion shapes their actions, but if they can keep their opinion without doing harm to others, they should be allowed to believe anything they wish
Now this is interesting because although it allows multiple viewpoints, you inherently set one of them up as correct. It's really a different question to respecting beliefs but it's the problem of freedom of belief and a subjective morality. Someone else could say that believing being gay is right is right but telling someone that being gay is right is wrong.
Tocs wrote:People are strange. Honestly I see it as everyone's opinion is correct until proven wrong with fact. And if there is no fact to It (like what is your favourite colour) then there is no wrong answer.
It's not wrong to like any colour but isn't it the wrong answer if someone lies about their favourite colour? (2 min 21 sec)



On a more serious note, there's a concept called Bayesian probability which calculates the probability of something including the idea of prior probability. Which is how likely something is to be true before you've tested it. It's really hard to get a proper value for that but, if someone says they have a pet dog, the prior probability is high. We see plenty of dogs and they are a very common pet. However if someone says that they have a pet dragon then the prior probability is very low. There is no evidence of real dragons even existing and we don't know anyone with a pet dragon. In that case, based on prior probability, the best course of action is to assume they are wrong unless proven otherwise.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#7

Post by Leeward »

I just want to add that there is such a thing as an incorrect opinion. That is, an opinion based on a falsehood (e.g. the sky is red). Everything else is either fact or entirely subjective.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

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Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Leeward wrote:I just want to add that there is such a thing as an incorrect opinion. That is, an opinion based on a falsehood (e.g. the sky is red). Everything else is either fact or entirely subjective.
Isn't that just a wrong fact?
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
~John Milton~
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#9

Post by Leeward »

No, I've met some people who fervently believe that vaccines cause autism, and other such rubbish.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#10

Post by jacojerb »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:
jacojerb wrote:I just believe that, if something doesn't hurt anyone or anything, it can not possibly be considered wrong. People may believe what they will. I respect all beliefs. I just don't respect all actions
Are you using wrong here to mean incorrect or undesirable? Cause the belief that squirrels are electric pink and the source of all gravity is not harmful to anyone but it can certainly be considered wrong.
jacojerb wrote:I know people's opinion shapes their actions, but if they can keep their opinion without doing harm to others, they should be allowed to believe anything they wish
Now this is interesting because although it allows multiple viewpoints, you inherently set one of them up as correct. It's really a different question to respecting beliefs but it's the problem of freedom of belief and a subjective morality. Someone else could say that believing being gay is right is right but telling someone that being gay is right is wrong.
On the first point, I meant wrong as in immoral, not incorrect. People can believe things that are incorrect, and though it is irrational, it is not immoral. If someone truly believes the Earth is flat, I will definitely question them for it, but I will not let it affect whatever relationship I have with them. Would still be friends with them. If I have to hate someone for being irrational... I don't think I'd have many friends

On the second point, it is something that does confuse me a lot, and I've had a lot of internal debates about it: If something hurts someone for irrational reasons, should that thing be considered wrong?

I personally don't think discussing opinions is harmful, as long as it's done in a respectful way, making sure that it is a matter of opinion. If someone tries to convince you that their opinion is the absolute correct opinion, that can be hurtful, unless they have evidence to back it up... This is a really complicated subject to me, and I just can't seem to make a simple rule for it. I guess as long as everything is done respectfully, it should be fine
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#11

Post by Leeward »

jacojerb wrote:People can believe things that are incorrect, and though it is irrational, it is not immoral. If someone truly believes the Earth is flat, I will definitely question them for it, but I will not let it affect whatever relationship I have with them. Would still be friends with them. If I have to hate someone for being irrational... I don't think I'd have many friends
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. There are some incorrect opinions (especially the vaccines = autism one) that, if openly expressed and advocated, can very much cause harm. Believing in something incorrect is one thing, but actively spreading falsehoods and ignorance is bad for all of humanity.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

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Post by Sev »

Leeward wrote:No, I've met some people who fervently believe that vaccines cause autism, and other such rubbish.
But that's a fact not an opinion. There is no supporting evidence for vaccines causing autism. Sure, there's tons of anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't mean anything to science.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#13

Post by Leeward »

And yet they tried to convince me that anecdotal evidence was enough to believe it.
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#14

Post by Hargan »

Leeward wrote:...people who fervently believe that vaccines cause autism...
Off topic and yet partially on, I have an autistic friend who punches anyone who has tries to say that to his face. His tally has reached double digits
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#15

Post by KinkInZA »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote:
well this video says it all if you treat others badly due to their opinions then the same will happen to you when you finally meet someone that knows more about a certain topic than you do ,bridge keeper condemned to eternal suffering at 2:55

so on a lighter side-note what is the flying speed of both European and African swallows??


also this video shows the power of suggestion so Lancelot uses blue the others hear it so automatically they think blue is the right answer that's why when was asked for his color he instinctively said blue it was true for Lancelot but not his own sake and got cast down when he realized its not his own color but Lancelots' color that influenced him: the power of suggestion .

also look at
“All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake up in the day to find it was vanity, but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
T.E. Lawrence
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Re: Why should I respect your stupid opinion?

#16

Post by Sev »

Leeward wrote:And yet they tried to convince me that anecdotal evidence was enough to believe it.
Come back to me when you can reproduce it under controlled conditions, is always my response.
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