Nature of science

[Leeward]

Egyptian mythology is not a science; if anything it's historical theology. Wolves and jackals are closely related enough that this discovery really won't make all that much of an impact. That would be like discovering that the dove Noah sent to find land was in fact a white pigeon. Same difference.

[Kangee Gold]

Everything that is studied is a science. The science of history, the science of mythology, it's all different fields of science.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Everything that is studied is a science. The science of history, the science of mythology, it's all different fields of science.

No. Science might be used in all of them but they are not all sciences.

[Franky]

A few months ago I mentioned this and got burned at the stake by some furs for doing so. I've come to the conclusion that a large amount of furries that just left their field of study with unlimited access to search engines are always right and I should keep my mouth shut because these biologists are way more stupid than furries.

:V

[Leeward]

Everything that is studied is a science. The science of history, the science of mythology, it's all different fields of science.

Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

What distinguishes a science from a non-science field of study is the application of the Scientific Method.

Scientific Method: a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

You can't experiment with history, it already happened (unless you have a time machine). Same goes for mythology, you can't quantify something that never existed.

[Neon]

A few months ago I mentioned this and got burned at the stake by some furs for doing so. I've come to the conclusion that a large amount of furries that just left their field of study with unlimited access to search engines are always right and I should keep my mouth shut because these biologists are way more stupid than furries.

:V

SILENCE THYSELF!!! I USE GOOGLE, ERGO I AM ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! How dare you try point out that there's more than just my view to things.

[Sev]

One thing that consistently impresses me is how Leeward is always the voice of logic and reason.

You go, you moo cow.

Also, let me just add that because something is not a "science" does not dismiss its importance. Archaeology is fundamental to understanding how we got here.

[Leeward]

One thing that consistently impresses me is how Leeward is always the voice of logic and reason.

You go, you moo cow.

Why thank you. :3

Also, let me just add that because something is not a "science" does not dismiss its importance. Archaeology is fundamental to understanding how we got here.

Indeed, although I have my doubts on the usefulness of theology, ancient or modern. Beyond the scope of psychology, that is.

[Sev]

Theology should be afforded no more respect than mysticism. It's mostly a bunch of superstitious nonsense, which is almost all together a negative influence on the world.

[Leeward]

Perhaps, but understanding the origins and trends of religious movements can help us understand why they appear, peak, and then disappear, and how that relates to the collective human psyche. It can also teach us exactly how best to manipulate the hive mind, but that would be erring into supervillain territory.

[Sev]

Yeah, but that still doesn't mean that it should actually be taken at all seriously. We don't still practice the religions of antiquity, and anyone saying "praise Jupiter" would be seen as stupid.

[Leeward]

As they say, hindsight is 20/20 vision. Nobody believes in the ancient deities any more because the natural phenomena (seasons, tides, earthquakes, volcanoes, lightning, etc.) that were typically attributed to them at the time (for lack of a better explanation) have now been studied and are generally well-understood in the modern world. I attribute the tenacious pervasiveness of superstition and religion to the failures of our global education system. Almost everyone who went to primary school knows that rain is part of the water cycle and not the tears of some giant invisible being, so why doesn't everyone at least entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, evolution is an actual thing and taking the Creation as described in Genesis literally is just a little bit absurd?

[Raven Song]

As they say, hindsight is 20/20 vision. Nobody believes in the ancient deities any more because the natural phenomena (seasons, tides, earthquakes, volcanoes, lightning, etc.) that were typically attributed to them at the time (for lack of a better explanation) have now been studied and are generally well-understood in the modern world. I attribute the tenacious pervasiveness of superstition and religion to the failures of our global education system. Almost everyone who went to primary school knows that rain is part of the water cycle and not the tears of some giant invisible being, so why doesn't everyone at least entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, evolution is an actual thing and taking the Creation as described in Genesis literally is just a little bit absurd?

Speak for yourself.

I may not strictly worship them but I don't not believe in them. Until something or someone comes down here and says "I do/don't exist" I'm going to be as open minded as I can.

Yes we have evidence that evolution is the way in which we all came about, and it's a lot stronger than the Egyptians jacking off myth... most things are stronger than that... but until undeniable proof is presented before me I will always hold a small corner of my mind open to other possibilities.

And what's wrong with believing that thunder is just angels moving their furniture around? If I don't cause you harm in believing it, why mock people about believing it.

You have this bad habit of claiming other peoples beliefs to be absurd. Which, my dear Leeward, makes you just as bad the Super Religious claiming Evolution to be absurd.

[Faanvolla]

I honestly don't understand,

but until undeniable proof is presented before me I will always hold a small corner of my mind open to other possibilities

Why is the burden of proof on the one who wants to argue or disprove something?
Why does the atheist need to disprove a god, when there is no testable proof from the god?
Why do we need to believe in

thunder is just angels moving their furniture around

if there is no proof of this?

And even when you can prove something, like the earth being round, you'd still get people who say it isn't. (and yeah, a lot of people there are probably trolls)

[Raven Song]

I'm not arguing that there isn't proof. Like I said I believe in evolution, and I don't necessarily believe in god and all that jazz.

What I do mean is who are we to mock those who believe in something that isn't our own belief.

which is what I got from Leewards "absurd" comment.

the angel furniture reference is a sarcastic attempt at a belief that I had as a child, and was mocked for up until I turned eight. Many children believe in such things, and even as an adult I like to imagine that this could be a reality. Even though I know about lightning and thunder and all that jazz.

Science will always be able to disprove non scientific belief because it is actively trying to disprove such things, for progression. Which I admire. But also hate it (I do have multiple personalities so I suppose one half me loves it, and one hates it), and yes Faan, perhaps I poorly worded it. I'm not expecting proof to handed to me, I have searched myself and the reason I am so open minded is because of my own experiences etc.

I was just being upset at Leewards "mocking" (even if she wasn't intending on it) of people who don't believe the same as her.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

There seems to be a fairly widespread misunderstanding of what "open minded" actually means... If someone says "RAM isn't part of a computer's hardware" you aren't less open minded for mocking that. Nor is it a virtue to let people believe that. Were you guys also defending Zuma's "Africa is the biggest continent" statement?

But, in any case, this thread is supposed to be about wolves. Let's keep it that way.

[Leeward]

Raven, I'm not going to make a bunch of quotes this time because Faan and Rakuen have already said most of what I wanted to. Please stop taking my statements as personal or general insults. When I say that a belief is absurd, I mean exactly that. I could start a religion by pulling some ridiculous story out of my arse and yet somehow have followers who genuinely believe it, but that doesn't mean that the religion is any less absurd, or any more possible or likely. Literally anything is possible. Giving more credit to popular hypotheses like the more widespread religions (ancient and modern) than to one I just made up is nonsensical. Being open-minded means accepting that anything is possible, yes, but it certainly does not mean putting the "made-up for lack of a better explanation" hypotheses on equal footing with our best knowledge of how the universe works. I don't believe in anything. I trust that the best and brightest of our species who dedicate their lives to the empirical scientific analysis of reality have most probably come up with the most likely scenario to date, and keep in mind that it is not necessarily correct. I most certainly do not mock anyone for believing otherwise. I do however mock the concept of belief itself; there is a distinction. So please, stop calling me a close-minded bigot because I think science is most probably correct as opposed to speculations with zero evidence to support them.

[Sev]

At least she is not a televangelist who exploits the naivety and trusting nature of many Christians for their own personal gain. Some of them might buy into their own bullshit, but I am sure that the majority of them do not believe the very things that they preach.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Here we go, I've used up my all my happy bubbles to split your thread into two workable threads. Now all the people who have probably not spent the last 10 years studying science or following the whole religion/science debate for the previous eight years can rehash the same arguments that are well-established in far more refined forms.

[Leeward]

*Blows bubbles to Rakuen.* I'm refuelling you. :3

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Bit better after shower and I guess I was a bit harsh, so sorry. Incidentally my mouse light doesn't turn off if it's plugged so I take it out at night. I didn't plug it back in but just navigated here with only a keyboard. Old people can't even use a computer with all it's controls.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Moved posts that dealt with animal ethics to the animal ethics thread: http://forum.zafur.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3643