Gun control

[Sev]

Dementia? So you want to ban someone from owning a gun because of a proclivity for a senile degenerative disease?

My family has a history of Alzheimers. Does that mean that I should be barred from ever owning a gun?

[Raven Song]

Well Sev, yes.

Let me use my friends father as a case and point. He did not own a gun. However the night that he had his first "attack" he woke, at three am, screaming, kicking and accidently punched his wife in the face. He was convinced he was being eaten alive by the piece of artwork he'd been working on.

Now lets add a gun to this scenario. What if, in the ensuing terror, in an effort to get away from said "crocodile" he'd had a gun at hand, and instinctively reached for it, as you may very well. He would have fired the gun at the "crocodile" it would have either not hit anything, or it could have hit something of value, his wife or a child perhaps.

If the mental illness has a predisposition to cause anger or violence in the person then it could possibly make them unsafe, and therefore I don't think they should own a gun.

to quote the Alzheimer's Organisation in the UK:

Alzheimer's disease is the most common cause of dementia. The word dementia describes a set of symptoms that can include memory loss and difficulties with thinking, problem-solving or language.

Now it could be argued that one who has a predisposition to Alzheimer's will never get it or experience the effects/symptoms of the disease... however if they should start to experience the memory loss and difficulties with thinking, problem-solving bits, then I would be piss terrified to know they had a dangerous weapon on/near them which could be used by said confused person.

Like I said Sev, I don't know enough about how to get a gun (never really wanted one so never really needed too, but I am finding it interesting and I do like learning the facts), but it has been mentioned to me that a mental competency certificate is required. So I'd like to know what they look at for that, and in my own personal opinion, background checks should include family mental history.

If my health insurance has to know that my grandfather died of diabetes related issues predisposing me to diabetes, making me a higher risk than a person with no medical history and therefore they are legally allowed to not take me on or move my insurance down a little, why can't guns do the same?

[Sev]

So a disease that may only affect me 50 years from now should be reason enough to bar me from buying a gun today? Makes perfect sense.

While you're at it, you might as well ban me for having Aspergers, because ignorant people might believe that it makes me violent, when in reality it just makes me a smart ass.

[Raven Song]

Sev, if you're going to take it personally then I'm going to start ignoring this discussion. Just because something may affect you know, or in fifty years, doesn't mean it wont affect you. If, when it does affect you, you happen to have a gun and the means in which you are affected causes you to shoot someone, I'd like to know that could have been prevented.

I also think that people who's family history of mental illness should be checked every few years for driving cars. One of the largest causes of car incidents in the UK is old people getting confused and driving the wrong way down offramps etc. That can (and I think now is) being prevented by more checks etc.

If they don't initially prevent you from owning a gun, then maybe it should be a requirement of people with this family history to go for regular checks to ensure they are still safe to own a gun.

[Sev]

Sorry, I was being rhetorical.

God forbid I ever get diagnosed with Alzheimers. In that case, I'm going to ask for a euthanasia. It's absolutely terrifying what it does to people. It turns them into nothing more than an empty husk eventually.

[Raven Song]

In the last four generations my family has had ten people die of insanity related mental illness (one literally got locked up here in England and died from infections in their hands... it runs in my family).

It is scary.

I genuinely think gun control in places like South Africa and the US (Obama's done a fair amount to lock it down a little) could use some tightening up. But sadly there will always also be the "that gun was stolen" guns running around. And there is little to do to stop that.

Except maybe not having so many civilian guns running around in the first place to be stolen.

Also if you want euthanasia, there's that village in Austria or Sweden or wherever, I think it's a pretty neat idea.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

You seem to be missing a more relevant aspect of the conversation than dementia. Sev said Sonic2k should get a gun. Sonik2k has also said he has a neurological condition that made him go "off the rails" and caused his "mood [to] altered sharply." Let's hope that can be fixed but if not then introducing a gun into that situation does not seem like a good idea.

[Sev]

There are many physiological and psychological conditions that can be corrected for by the proper application of modern pharmaceuticals.

My sister has "pathological anxiety" and she was absolute hell to live with. However, the condition is completely under control now, and she is both a happier person and a more pleasant one to be around.

There should not be a blanket ban on "mental illness"; it should be dealt with in a case by case basis. After all, most gun crime is not perpetrated by the "mentally ill".

That being said, if someone is a distinct danger at that time, they should not be allowed to own a firearm. However, as soon as a mental professional can ascertain that the person has stabilized and is no longer a threat, that ban should be listed.

As a compromise to both parties, high risk, but not currently dangerous people should be allowed to own a gun, but should be required to go to bi annual assessments. I would consent to that, even if it is an inconvenience.

[Randall]

That's why anyone seriously considering using a gun for self defense needs to go for some proper training, and practice extensively.

You should run drills and go to the range as often as possible.

I intend doing all of this. I take this very seriously. In any case, I will start soonest, but I need a means to defend my family against intruders, that is the primary motivation.

[Raven Song]

Thanks Rakuen for bringing that up because tha's sort of what I was eventually getting at, just didn't know how to say it without sounding like "Sonik said he's sometimes a bit loopy, is it wise to give him a loaded gun." which isn't what I would mean, but what it would have sounded like.

Sev that's exactly the sort of suggestion I was hoping for. I am very against guns in general but if the community was willing to make a "sacrifice" like an annual or bi annual mental health check up then I'd sleep a bit safer at night.

Sonic I may still not agree with your want of bringing a weapon into your home, I cannot deny you your own personal right to protect yourself, your family and your property.

On a side not I actually enjoyed this little discussion for once, and I got to indulge my love of data and statistics, and learned some new things on the way.

[Randall]

In regards to me being a bit loopy, I am sure if you had this illness, you'd also feel the way I did.

There has been adjustments recently to meds that I take, that, and the fact that, I likely have a virus running in my nerves, and all this pressure I was under, made me go off the rails a bit.

However, despite all this, I was able to remain calm, and do the right thing, while there was an intruder in the house. That means I am fit enough to go through all of this.

[Raven Song]

And that exactly why I didn't say it. Because it is disrespectful of me, having not known you in real life and gotten to know how you ACTUALLY react to things (online reactions don't count IMO).

That and my inability to say what I actually mean due to brain-dumb, which pretty much always gets me in the shit.

[Tocs]

I believe that it is a preference and opinions based around this matter.. no one is incorrect here because both sides of the story can be validated. I personally do not like guns, I simply don't, I can go on a whole long story justifying why but honestly it won't solve much and I feel this thread is just going to go around in circles

[Rakuen Growlithe]

I believe that it is a preference and opinions based around this matter.. no one is incorrect here because both sides of the story can be validated.

Most issues have preferences/opinions as well as facts. How people feel about others having guns is an opinion. Whether having guns improves safety is a question of fact.

[Adagio]

Well! I finally had time to read through what everyone said...

My stance on the situation:
We have numerous guns hidden throughout the house... If an intruder were to sneak past the alarms, there is a gun within at least 20m of us at any time. I myself used to sleep with a gun underneath my pillow, even though it was just a CO2 Operated pellet gun...(used to carry it everywhere, untill it broke...)

Honestly, I feel a lot safer knowing, if the need arises, I have the means to defend myself.

I have been found competent to own a firearm, and I am going to apply soon. And I'll be carrying.

The neighbourhood watch are also fully armed and competent. And if they hadn't had the firearms, there'd have been a few robberies or even casualties of robberies in the area(remember when I mentioned the murder happening next door to us?)

Guns probably saved our lives on a few occasions... Luckily it never came to the need to shoot an intruder, because the intruders KNOW that it'll be dangerous for them to even attempt robbing us.

I sound radical? Well... Our neighbourhood isn't of the safest... But firearms made it safer so much so, that the police thanked us for bringing crime down significantly in the area...

[Tocs]

I believe that it is a preference and opinions based around this matter.. no one is incorrect here because both sides of the story can be validated.

Most issues have preferences/opinions as well as facts. How people feel about others having guns is an opinion. Whether having guns improves safety is a question of fact.

Then again it can also be based on preferences. If you have a gun in your house yet your opinions about them are negative, you are technically setting yourself up to be psychological danger, in terms of paranoia. Same goes for the opposite scenario. So it does depend on everyone's situations, how their preferences and opinions are and all that.

[Leeward]

It also depends a lot on the particular situation. Myself I like to live by "rather have a gun you don't need than need one you don't have," not just for weapons but pretty much everything else too. I suspect that's why I have the biggest handbag on Earth.

[Ocean knight]

I personally don't like guns. They can save lives but also end them. I feel if a person has been denied a gun licence then that person shouldn't be allowed to handle or own a gun of any kind.

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Then again it can also be based on preferences. If you have a gun in your house yet your opinions about them are negative, you are technically setting yourself up to be psychological danger, in terms of paranoia. Same goes for the opposite scenario. So it does depend on everyone's situations, how their preferences and opinions are and all that.

Sure, they mix but I'm talking on average. So there's a Slate article that sums up a number of points of gun research: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... ingle.html

Using data from 1981–2010 and the best firearm ownership proxy to date, the study found that for every 1 percent increase in gun ownership, there was a 1.1 percent increase in the firearm homicide rate and a 0.7 percent increase in the total homicide rate. /.../ Further, the firearm ownership rate had no statistically significant impact on nonfirearm homicides, meaning there was no detectable substitution effect. That is, in the absence of guns, would-be criminals are not switching to knives or some other weapons to carry out homicide.

Indeed, every single case-control study ever conducted in the United States has found that gun ownership is a strong risk factor for suicide, even after adjusting for aggregate-level measures of suicidality such as mental illness, alcoholism, poverty, and so on.

A recent meta-analysis of 16 studies examined the relationship between firearms and gun deaths. Gun ownership doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk of suicide. This research is bolstered by a national survey that found that a gun in the home was far more likely to be used to threaten a family member or intimate partner than to be used in self-defense.

[Neon]

I know that something like this is impossible, but I firmly believe in banning all civilian firearms across the whole nation. You would feel safer with a gun in your hands, but what if you could be confident that the intruder would not be bearing a firearm as well? The stats are all up there. An armed nation is a much more dangerous nation. There are thousands of demographics out there condemning America's right to bear arms.

So imagine a perfect world where no one bears tools to kill people with the squeeze of a finger.

Of course this is not possible. At all. There will always be weapons, wherever you go. The sad truth is that we will all need our own tools of death to stay safe in this world.

But I wont own one any time soon. They only make you a target, and in the case of an intrusion, by you baring a gun the intruder will be left with no choice but to open fire to save his life.

[Leeward]

It only makes you a target if you make it public knowledge. The thing is, criminals don't obey laws, that's kind of their thing. So banning all civilian firearms will only reinforce the black market for them (i.e. there will be a market for weapons stolen from police, military, illegally imported, etc), and that will just make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable.

[Neon]

And thus why no one in their right mind would ever hand in their gun if a ban was enforced. Sadly we do not live in an ideal world :/

[Franky]

Don't know the legitimacy of this but I heard more people get killed in South Africa with their own firearms than accomplishing to defend themselves with it.

[Raven Song]

I'm trying to find some information to substantiate/disprove the statement.

will post if I find something...

[Leeward]

I can almost guarantee you that those cases are due to people storing their guns in safes.

[Raven Song]

Leeward, we stored ours in a safe for it's whole life. we never shot ourselves. that's an unjustified remark... prove it.

Wall Of Text Initiate!!!!

Here is something very interesting I found, which I will whittle down but if you want to read the whole thing, go here http://www.saferspaces.org.za/understan ... n-violence

Gun Deaths in South Africa

6,428 people were shot and killed in 2009 (the most recent year for which data is available), i.e. 18 people were shot and killed a day that year.1 This is half the number of people shot 10 years ago; in 1998, 12,298 people were shot and killed, averaging 34 people a day.2

For more information on the statistics used in this introduction, please read the "Note on the data" below.

Murder

“Fifteen people are murdered with a gun every day in South Africa.”
Of the 6,428 gun-related deaths in 2009, 5,513 people were murdered i.e. 15 people a day were murdered with a gun, which means that 33% of the 16,834 people murdered in 2009 were shot and killed.3

This is below the global average - according to the United Nations, 41% of murders globally are committed with a firearm.4​ However, this wasn’t always the case; 41.5% of all reported murders in South Africa in 1994 were committed with a firearm, increasing to 49.4% in 1998.5

The reason for the decline in gun deaths is SA’s Firearms Control Act (2000). Research published in the American Journal of Public Health (2014) shows that over 4,500 lives were saved in Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth and Pretoria from 2001 to 2005 because of the Firearms Control Act.6 For more information on the impact of the Firearms Control Act, see Guns and Intimate Femicide below. (Raven's note: that's actually a really good defense for you pro-gun guys! You should use it.)

Suicide

“Two people commit suicide with a gun every day in South Africa.”
780 people committed suicide with a gun in 2009 i.e. 2 people a day. Many factors lead to individuals trying to end their lives, so it’s important to understand why people attempt or commit suicide in order to help and support them, but a growing body of research indicates that how people attempt suicide is also important.

Reducing access to lethal means is an effective way to increase the odds that a suicide attempt will end in care, not in death. About 85% of attempts with a firearm are fatal: that's a much higher case fatality rate than for nearly every other method. Many of the most widely used suicide attempt methods have case fatality rates below 5%.

How do guns differ from other means?

Guns are more lethal. They’re quick. And they’re irreversible. Once the trigger is pulled, death usually follows within minutes. Attempters who take pills, inhale car exhaust or use razors have some time to reconsider mid-attempt and summon help or be rescued. The method itself often fails, even in the absence of a rescue.

Even suicide attempters who use hanging can stop mid-way as about half of hanging suicides are partial-suspension (meaning the person can release the pressure if they change their mind).8 With a firearm, once the trigger is pulled, there's no turning back.

What can you do?

Putting time and distance between a suicidal person and a gun may save a life. If you have firearms at home and a household member is suicidal or at risk (e.g. an impulsive teen, a person struggling with depression or drug or alcohol problems, or someone going through difficulties like divorce or arrest), seriously consider removing the guns from the home; see www.gfsa.org.za for the procedure to hand in a legal firearm to the police for destruction.

There are different ways to help prevent suicides, but one step is clear. Reducing a suicidal person’s access to lethal means helps save lives, particularly among impulsive attempters.

Firearms are the most lethal suicide method. Suicide attempts with a firearm are almost always fatal, while those with other methods are less likely to kill. And nine out of ten people who survive an attempt do not go on to die by suicide later.


Men and Women

90% of gun violence victims are men.
•89% (5,711) of the 6,428 people shot and killed were men and 11% (717) were women.
•89% (4,902) of the 5,513 gun-related murder victims were men and 11% (611) were women.
•88% (687) of the 780 gun-related suicide victims were men and 12% (93) were women.

Guns and Intimate Femicide

While women are less likely to be victims of gun violence, firearms still play a significant role in violence against women, being used in intimate femicide (defined as the killing of a female person by an intimate partner), to rape, and to threaten and intimidate.

The findings of the most recent intimate femicide study in SA show that the number of women killed by their intimate partner has dropped from 4 women a day in 1999 (translating into one woman being killed every six hours) to 3 women a day (every 8 hours) in 2009.

The reason for this drop in intimate femicide is because of a decline in the number of women that were shot and killed compared to deaths by other means, including stab and blunt injuries (see Table 1). The researchers attribute this decrease in gun deaths to the implementation of the Firearms Control Act (2000).

As of March 2015 there were:
•1.8 million licensed civilian gun owners in South Africa (1,749,03512), which means that civilian gun owners make up just 3.4% of South Africa’s 51.8 million population. In other words, out of a group of 100 people, 3 own a gun. This is a drop from just over 2 million (2,027,411) gun owners in 1999,13 or 5 gun owners per 100 people.14
•Just over 3 million firearms are registered to civilians (3,081,17315); translating into a ratio of 5.9 guns per 100 people. This is a 14% drop from 1999, when 3.5 million (3,554,336) guns were registered to civilians, which is a ratio of 8.3 firearms for every 100 people.16


Lost and Stolen Guns

SAPS 2013/2014 Annual Report [20]
A common belief is that gun crime is only committed with illegal guns and that the only solution is to mop illegal guns up through amnesties, buy-backs, police search and seizure as well as intelligence operations.

But unless the tap through which guns leak into the illegal pool of weapons is closed, valuable resources will have to be spent on costly, time consuming and sometimes dangerous mop up operations.

Unlike drugs, which are illegal from the moment they are manufactured, guns are manufactured legally; so every illegal gun started out being legal before it was leaked into the illegal pool.

There are three ways that legal guns leak into the illegal pool of weapons in South Africa:
1.Legal guns are smuggled from neighbouring countries, though research indicates that this is low, and that guns are more likely to be smuggled to neighbouring countries.17
2.Fraud, corruption and poor implementation of the Firearms Control Act means that people who are not ‘fit and proper’ are issued with firearm certificates, licences, permits or authorisations.
3.Loss and theft of firearms from civilians and state institutions. Data shows that firearm loss and theft is the most significant source of illegal guns in South Africa, though statistics from various sources on the number of guns that are lost or stolen each year is not consistent.
This is because different processes are used to collect and monitor data: Statistics cited in South African Police Service (SAPS) Annual Reports18 are based on paper-based reports while data from the Central Firearms Registry (CFR) – which is reported on in parliamentary questions19 – is dependent on paper reports being recorded electronically. What this means is that SAPS data is likely to be more accurate, ateast until all paper reports have been recorded onto the CFR system.

Whichever the source of data referred to, the numbers for firearm loss and theft are worryingly high. In the past three years civilians have lost between 15 and 28 guns every day and police officers have lost between 2 and 5 guns every day.


Legal or Illegal Guns In Crime


"If your stolen gun was there, so were you."
Ad campaign by Gun Free South Africa
All illegal guns were once legal before being diverted to the illegal pool of weapons in South Africa. With the high number of guns that are lost and stolen, one obvious way of reducing the diversion of legal guns to the illegal pool is to strictly regulate the gun licensing process, thus ensuring that only responsible people are granted firearm licences.

That said; legal guns are also used to commit crime, e.g. a study looking at suicide among intimate femicide perpetrators showed that this was more likely among professional or white-collar workers, mostly employed in the police, military or private security industry, reflecting easy access to guns in these professions as a risk factor.21

Two-thirds of the perpetrators owned a legal gun, and the authors note that 91.5% of these double deaths (intimate femicide-suicide) “might have been prevented should gun ownership have been restricted”.22


The Risks of Gun Ownership

“You are four times more likely to have your gun used against you than to be able to use it successfully in self-defence.” (There's Inpw's ref)

Gun related deaths are not indiscriminate acts of chance that randomly affect people. There is a simple cause and effect - the presence of a gun puts everyone at risk of injury and death.

For many South Africans having a gun in the home is about protecting themselves, their families and their possessions against a stranger intruder, but research in South Africa shows that you are four times more likely to have your gun used against you than to be able to use it successfully in self-defence.23 This is because criminals choose the time and place to attack to ensure that their victim is most vulnerable.

International evidence shows that owners of handguns are significantly more often victims of contact crimes (murder, assaults, robbery); and households that own guns run a higher risk of seeing their members being criminally victimised - either by household members or by outsiders who are not put off by the presence of a gun.24

The evidence in support of the link between strong firearms control and lives saved continues to mount.25 While South Africa’s experience confirms global studies showing that stricter firearm legislation saves lives; recent research in Australia has examined the impact on gun crime in general – which is important, as fatalities constitute only a small portion of gun violence. The study concludes that Australia’s gun law reforms led to significant reductions in armed robbery and attempted murder.26

That gun legislation would reduce gun-related crime makes sense, since the availability of a firearm is often the factor determining whether or not a criminal – especially a young person – decides to proceed with a particular crime or not.27


The Firearms Control Act

The Firearms Control Act (2000) regulates firearm ownership in South Africa, limiting who can own what weapon for which purpose.

The Firearms Control Act (FCA) includes the following key provisions:

Gun ownership is not a right but a privilege governed by law
South African law is similar to most other countries that regulate the possession of gun ownership, in that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege offered through the law which sets criteria for ownership.

Licence the person, Register the gun
Licensing the person and registering the gun is a central part of any registration system, as it records the details of a firearm, together with information about the person responsible for this weapon, so linking a firearm to an owner.

The registration of guns also helps support law enforcement officials in their efforts to trace guns, investigate crime and support criminal prosecution.

Two-tier licensing system: establish competency; issue licence to possess to ‘fit and proper’ person
The principle underlying this provision in the Act is one of placing the onus of responsibility onto the firearm applicant to show that she/he is fit to own gun.
•Competency certificate: Competency certificates are very similar to the learner’s licence required by those learning to drive a car. Like a learner’s licence, people applying for a competency certificate in order to apply for a licence to possess a firearm, must meet certain requirements including: aged 21 years or older; not dependent on any intoxicating or narcotic substance; not convicted, whether in or outside South Africa, of an offence involving the use of a firearm or violence; and successfully completed the prescribed test on knowledge of the law.
The competency certificate thus sets a minimum standard for owning a firearm. Only those meeting this standard can enter the system, and apply for a firearm licence.
•Firearm Licence: Having obtained a competency certificate, the person wishing to own a firearm has to then apply for a firearm licence. A separate licence is required for each firearm a person wishes to own. A firearm licence documents the state’s recognition that the person has been judged ‘fit and proper’ to own a firearm, so granting him/her permission to possess the firearm for which the licence applies.

Renewals
Under South Africa’s old gun law, the Arms and Ammunition Act (1969), a licence to possess a firearm lasted for life, meaning that there were very limited checks and balances to ensure that existing gun owners remained equal to the responsibility of firearm ownership.

The system of renewals is an integral part of the licensing and registration system which makes provision for the legal gun owner to reaffirm his/her responsibility for the firearm registered in his/her name or be given an opportunity to explain why he or she should no longer be accountable for its whereabouts. Such explanations may include a lawful transfer, theft (supported by a police report) or voluntary surrender (supported by evidence).

Firearm licence renewal requires that genuine need for the continued ownership of the firearm must be proven again. Imposing a limited duration on a gun licence provides for the following:
1.Regular confirmation that the licensed owner is still qualified to have a firearm;
2.An incentive for complying with licensing – this places responsibility on the licence holder to maintain ‘fit and proper behaviour’ since there is a risk the licence may be revoked;
3.An incentive for acquiring a new licence when the old licence expires.

Other benefits of a renewal system include enhancing police investigations; improving police officer safety; and reducing gun theft. A renewal system also helps to enforce the legal obligation to report lost or stolen firearms; which in turn allows the police to more fully understand this flow and be able to respond accordingly.

Age Restriction
Most countries prohibit the acquisition and ownership of guns by young people and minors. This can include restricting the types of firearm-related activities young people can engage in or the types of weapons they can possess. The international norm of not permitting ownership of a firearm until a person is 18 years of age (the age of majority in many countries).

However, there are some notable exceptions such as South Africa which does not permit gun ownership until the person is 21 years old (with some exceptions). Other countries which have a 21 year age restriction include Croatia, Egypt, Estonia, India, Lithuania, and Turkey. Countries such as Brazil and Uganda require a person to be 25 years of age.

Firearm Free Zones (Section 140)
Section 140 of the Firearms Control Act gives Minister of Police the power to declare (by notice in the Government Gazette) any premises or category of premises as a Firearm Free Zone (FFZ) in which no person may allow, store or carry a firearm. It is a criminal offence to contravene the FFZ status of a premise.

Schedule 4 – Penalties of the Act lists the maximum period of imprisonment:
•For allowing a firearm or ammunition into an FFZ: Five years.
•For carrying a firearm or ammunition in an FFZ: Ten years.
•For storing a firearm or ammunition in an FFZ: Twenty-five years.


The future of gun control in SA

A number of high profile gun-related deaths, including Oscar Pistorius’ shooting of Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine’s Day 2013 and Bafana Bafana national captain Senzo Meyiwa’s murder in October 2014 have resulted in increasing calls for an end to gun violence.

South Africa’s government has responded to this call, and is currently reviewing the Firearms Control Act as well as the institutions and systems responsible for its implementation to close loopholes and contribute to safety and security in the country.


A note on the data

Statistics for firearm-related deaths in South Africa are drawn from a 2009 mortuary study, which provides the most recent data available on injury-related mortality. The reason for this is that while the South African Police Service (SAPS) used to provide information on the weapon used in murders and attempted murders, it no longer disaggregates this information.

Gun Free South Africa, with other organisations involved in violence prevention, have requested SAPS to provide more detailed annual crime statistics, including a breakdown of firearm-related crimes, specifically the use of firearms in murder and attempted murder.

Not only would this additional information enable us to assess our own programmes and activities; it would also allow the police to identify changes in firearm-related crime and thus adapt policing interventions and monitor the impact of changes in policies and practices.

That said, while SAPS crime data is an invaluable source of information, it’s important to note that mortuary data has been shown to be more accurate than police crime statistics: SA’s 2009 mortuary data shows significantly more homicides (13% more) than recorded by SAPS that year, which highlights the value of accessing data from various sources to fully understand crime and violence patterns in SA.


References

1. Unless indicated, figures are from 2009. Source: Matzopoulos, R. et al. 2015. Injury-related mortality in South Africa: a retrospective descriptive study of postmortem investigations. Bull World Health Organisation. Published online: 13 March 2015. 93: 303–313: http://dx.doi.org/10.2471/BLT.14.145771.
2. Chetty, R. 2000. Firearm Use and Distribution in South Africa. Pretoria: The National Crime Prevention Centre, p20.
3. See Table 2 below, which shows that murder rates in SA have been dropping over time; the figure of 33% of people shot in 2009 is based on SA’s 2009/10 murder figure of 16,834 to be comparable with gun death figures, which are also from 2009. Table 2 source: Serious crime during the 2003/2004 to 2010/2011 financial years and the percentage increases/decreases in crime between 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 in SAPS Crime Report 2010/2011, www.saps.gov.za.

2003/04

2004/05

2005/06

2006/07

2007/08

2008/09

2009/10

2010/11


Table 2: Murder during the 2003/2004 to 2010/2011 financial years


Murder rate per 100,000
42.7 40.3 39.6 40.5 38.6 37.3 34.1 31.9

Raw figures/ Frequency
19,824 18,793 18,528 19,202 18,487 18,148 16,834 15,940

4. Global Study on Homicide 2013: Trends, Contexts, Data. 2013. Vienna: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, p16.
5. Chetty, R. 2000. Firearm Use and Distribution in South Africa. Pretoria: The National Crime Prevention Centre, p18.
6. Matzopoulos R. et al. 2014. Firearm and Nonfirearm Homicide in 5 South African Cities; A Retrospective Population-Based study, American Journal of Public Health: Research and Practice, e1-e6.
7. Information on firearm lethality and suicide prevention sourced from: Firearm Access is a Risk Factor for Suicide, Harvard School of Public Health: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matte ... index.html (accessed 29 July 2015).
8. Bennewith O, Gunnell D, Kapur N, et. al. Suicide by hanging. British Journal of Psychiatry. 2005;186:260-1.
9. All figures are derived from Abrahams N. et al. 2013. Intimate Partner Femicide in South Africa in 1999 and 2009. PLoS Med 10(4): e1001412.doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.1001412.
10. The figure of 18 to 72 is based on a comprehensive global study on gun violence and disability – see Buchanan, C. (Editor). 2013. Gun Violence, Disability and Recovery, Surviving Gun Violence Project - which estimates that for every person shot and killed as many as six victims will survive, often with severe disabilities. GFSA has conservatively estimated that between one and four people survive a gun violence incident for each of the 18 fatalities a day as opposed to between one and six.
11. van As, S. 2014. Gun violence: What it costs the body, and our country, Daily Maverick, 19 March.
12. Phiyega, R. (South African National Police Commissioner). 2015. Implementing the Firearms Control Act. Presentation at the National Firearms Summit, Police Portfolio Committee, Parliament of South Africa, Cape Town, 24-25 March 2015.
13. Chetty, R. Firearm Use and Distribution in South Africa (Pretoria: The National Crime Prevention Centre, 2000), p32.
14. The figure of 5 gun owners per 100 people is based on the 1999 mid-year population estimate of 43 million in Chetty, R. 2000. Firearm Use and Distribution in South Africa. Pretoria: The National Crime Prevention Centre, p32. The actual ratio is 4.7 per 100 people, which has been rounded up to 5.
15. Phiyega, R. (South African National Police Commissioner) (2015) Implementing the Firearms Control Act. Presentation at the National Firearms Summit, Police Portfolio Committee, Parliament of South Africa, Cape Town, 24-25 March 2015.
16. This figure is based on the 1999 mid-year population estimate of 43 million in Chetty, R. 2000. Firearm Use and Distribution in South Africa Pretoria: The National Crime Prevention Centre, p32.
17. McKenzie, K. 1999. Domestic Gun Control Policy in Ten SADC Countries. GFSA. Hennop, E. (2000) Chapter 2: 'Illegal Firearms in Circulation in South Africa' in Gamba, Virginia. (ed) 2000. Society Under Siege: Managing Arms in South Africa. Pretoria: Institute for Security Studies.
18. Annual reports are available on the South African Police Service website: www.saps.gov.za.
19. Kohler-Barnard, D. 2015. Question No. 1372: Written reply by the Minister of Police. National Assembly of South Africa. Internal question paper no. 10-2015: Date of publication: 17 April 2015. Hartley, W. 2014. Firearm figures confusion. Business Day, 8 December: http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2014/1 ... -confusion.
20. SAPS 2013/2014 Annual Report: www.saps.gov.za.
21. Mathews, S. et al. 2008. Intimate Femicide-Suicide in South Africa, WHO Bulletin 86/7 (2008), p552-558.
22. Mathews, S. et al. 2008. Intimate Femicide-Suicide in South Africa, WHO Bulletin 86/7 (2008), p556.
23. Altbeker, A. et al. 2000. Are South Africans Responsible Firearm Owners? Evidence from 1,000 Dockets. Johannesburg: GFSA; Altbeker A. 1999. Guns and Public Safety: Gun Crime and Self-Defence in Alexandra and Bramley. Johannesburg: GFSA.
24. van Kesteren, J. 2014. Revisiting the gun ownership and violence link: A multilevel analysis of victimization survey data, British Journal of Criminology, 54, p53-72.
25. Brazil and Columbia, which are similar to South Africa, have seen reductions in firearm-related deaths following legislative amendments; see: Sutton, H. et al. 2010. Implementing Brazil’s ‘Disarmament Statute’: Putting Law into Practice, Instituto Sou da Paz and Aguirre, K. et al 2009. Assessing the Effect of Policy Interventions on Small Arms Demand in Bogotá, Colombia. Documentos CERAC No. 14. CERAC/Small Arms Survey.
26. Taylor, B. and J. Li. 2015. Do fewer guns lead to less crime? Evidence from Australia, International Review of Law & Economics. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.irle.2015.01.002.
27. Peters, R. 2015. Lessons learned for gun violence prevention. Daily Maverick, 9 March.

Just so you guys know this, I haven't had this much fun in days. Research is so much fun!!!

[Sev]

I know that something like this is impossible, but I firmly believe in banning all civilian firearms across the whole nation. You would feel safer with a gun in your hands, but what if you could be confident that the intruder would not be bearing a firearm as well? The stats are all up there. An armed nation is a much more dangerous nation. There are thousands of demographics out there condemning America's right to bear arms.

So imagine a perfect world where no one bears tools to kill people with the squeeze of a finger.

Of course this is not possible. At all. There will always be weapons, wherever you go. The sad truth is that we will all need our own tools of death to stay safe in this world.

But I wont own one any time soon. They only make you a target, and in the case of an intrusion, by you baring a gun the intruder will be left with no choice but to open fire to save his life.

Yes, and while we're at it we should ban knives, weighty blunt instruments, chains and wires, airtight bags, and even automobiles.

Maybe we should just put everyone in their own padded cells so that they won't be a danger to each other.

That'll finally put an end to war, murders, and accidental death.

[Franky]

So four fold then?

[Raven Song]

(ponders... isn't four fold four times twenty...)

yeah, four times more likely....

[Franky]

(ponders... isn't four fold four times twenty...)

yeah, four times more likely....

By four times... but the math should be 16 times actually. Just a statement.

It has to do with respect for a firearm. Many people don't, even after all the bad things you hear people still treat it like a toy. It's a ranged weapon that can cause way more harm than people subconsciously think IMO.

I illegally owned a 9 mil for 4 years and eventually gave it to my now passed uncle in the police force after I realized the reality of what actually happens when guns are just floating around.