The furry public perception

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YoteFox
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The furry public perception

#1

Post by YoteFox »

I have been thinking lately, I know right!? Shocker!

The radio show with Rian on 94.2 was somewhat of a good thing for the furry community of South Africa along with the Huisgenoot article. But I find myself dwelling on them quite a lot. I contemplate a lot of the things we said, sometimes it keeps me up at night. I try and create an ideal scenario of what we could have said instead. I know it's a bit silly but it's with good reasoning behind it. I've always felt as if there is some kind of communication breakdown between furries and members of the general public in terms of explaining why we are. I mean I'm sure it's fairly obvious there is.

Nothing inherently negative has come from either of the public exposures so far, except for a few rude comments on the live stream on Facebook but Facebook is a breeding ground for toxicity so that was to be expected really. What we mainly obtained was exposure, we got quite a lot of exposure in terms of people who are now aware of the existence of furries in South Africa. Exposure in itself isn't what we should strive for when interacting with the media, exposure should be the benefit that comes from being in the eye of the media.

I've thought a lot about what we told Rian on 94.2 as well as the journalist from Huisgenoot. I feel we didn't get through to them. We didn't fully explain what the appeal is to being a furry, why we do it. We talked about what we do a lot, since this interested people quite a lot, but it leaves room for interpretation of what the motive is behind being interested or having a vested interest in this seemingly obscure internet subculture. Let's be honest here, the fandom comes across as strange and misunderstood. Which is understandable why. If you had to look from the public perspective out of a non-furry viewpoint and see people dressing up as animals you should have questions, rightfully so too.

I believe this is where the breakdown comes in terms of communication with the media and the public at large. Explaining the why is very difficult however explaining the how and who is easier and more interesting really. I've heard quite a few misconceptions like: The furries are for the gay people, The furries are people who believe they are animals, the furries just dress up as animals to have sex, it's that animal costume sex thing right? Whilst some of these things aren't exactly false, it's not why we have this inherent appreciation for these cartoon animal people. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here, I'm not going to try and prove the point of furry isn't about the sex.

These misconceptions exist because of the reluctance of explaining the why or the simple inability to express why. Let's not beat around the bush here, yes there are many sexual things in this community. There's no denying that. Is it a bad thing? No, not at all. I believe it's a factor that can really enhance it for some. But again this isn't the focus of this thread.

I've always thought that furries can be defined by the word furry. The word furry in itself doesn't give enough comprehension in this regards. You can ask 100 furries what a furry is and you'll get 98 different answers. If you truly want to understand something you need to look at the reason for existence and continued existence thereof. That is the Why question.

I've been in contact with the media quite some, I've had experience directly with what they are looking for most of the time. So far we have been lucky in those taking to us, not seeking sensation more enlightenment. The issue is we didn't give them the enlightenment they were looking for. Given the airtime and questions we had on 94.2 really made this difficult to convey and the moment was really big, I for one was really intimidated and had to really think on my feet. There wasn't enough of an opportunity OR we lack the communication skills to have really steered that conversation in a direction where we delve into the deeper reasoning behind it. We did give some really good answers but I don't think they really got what they wanted.

So one thing that really leaps at me is the initial perception, people see you dressing as an animal. They immediately think:
"Oh, so you want to be a dog hey? That's why you dress as such, obviously you like animals and are obsessed with being one. Yes that makes sense in my mind".

I'm sure you're reading this thinking, that isn't what it's about. Off course it isn't, but you know this, they don't. The general assumption, correct me if I'm wrong, I shouldn't have to explain why I like what I do. You have no obligation to do so either, you're not wrong in thinking this way. But I've found myself countless times in a position where I'm fursuiting and someone asks me "What are you dressed as" I could simply dismissively say that I am a furry and go on with my life. But this just creates more questions than what they originally had. If I had the time I would LOVE to sit and have an in depth discussion with the person about what I am dressed as, but that's seldom the case. However I myself don't know how to describe it exactly. I've always defaulted to: we're fans of cartoon animals I've never fully understood why I say this, at least until now.

But since the first thing that hits people is "animal costume" and not "cartoon animal costume" it becomes strange and open to interpretation. NOW add the feared sexual stuff into that mix. The narrative goes "Oh so you want to be a dog, you like seeing these dog people having sex, you must be attracted to animals then since you love them so much!" You see where I'm going with this? The unsuspecting public sees the naughty things and only sees the animal aspect of it. This is applicable in general to furry things. It's just that the sexual stuff hits harder, because SEX.

Yes, I'm about 95% confident furries have compassion for our four legged friends. But it isn't why we are furries, is it? You can love animals and not be a furry, you can also love animals and be a furry. The love for animals isn't what makes someone be a furry. Sure it can lead to it, but it isn't the root cause or the hook that catches the fluffy fish. I've been approached recently by the producer of a show on KykNet called Kwêla. I'll explain more about that at a later time. One of the recurring themes in the list of questions she sent me was the animal factor. Questions like when I realised I love animals etc.

I answered these questions truthfully, but it was only until a few days ago I realised that her questions seemed a bit focused on the wrong thing. It's understandable why though, the aspect that sticks out like a sore thumb about furries is the animal aspect. It's what people understand the best of everything revolving around furries and therefor they try to connect the dots, missing the core factors of the community. (I did email the producer and explain to her)

The core factor being cartoons, fiction, fantasy whatever you want to call it. Animals being a qualitative factor to this but not the focus or the core. I believe that we all as furries have a mutual interest in the concept behind our beloved animal people and it isn't animals or sex. Even if it is the sexual aspect that made you become a furry, but there is the same reasoning as the rest of us(furries) why you like the furry stuff in specific. Same is applicable to all of these reasons really. Yes you became a furry because of X or Y. But WHY are you a furry? Not what lead you to being one, WHY do you continue with this subculture given it's weirdness?

You can say, oh it's the art or oh it's the fursuits but again these are what made you want to be a furry, not inherently why you are a furry or better put a fan of anthropomorphic animals. The art, the suits, the stories, the role plays these are all tools we use to express our appreciation for these cartoon animals, our "fursonas" are our own creations of these cartoon animals. Many times relating to ourselves and other times not at all. We create multiple characters sometimes. These characters are our tools to express this appreciation to a deeper degree. Anyone can wear a mickey mouse suit and say I'm a fan of Disney. Super fans create their own version of Mickey to show their love for the cartoon mouse. This is what I believe is the common collective "why" behind furries. Not being a superfan, but recognising the fact you are a fan.

I for one love animations, cartoons and the likes. I'd much rather watch an animated movie than a live action film. I love the design aspect of it, I love the creativity, I love the fact that the creators are literally limited by their ability to imagine. Doesn't this sound like aspects as to why someone would enjoy being a furry as well? Sure not everyone has the same taste as me in animations, I enjoy Disney animations. Other people enjoy Anime or what have you.

We're not sexual deviants, we're not criminals, we're not really as weird as people are let to believe. This is why the community is so intriguingly diverse, our reasons for initial participation varies widely but we are all connected to a common idealogy. We understand each other without having to verbalise it, it's an unspoken bond all furries share. Is it because of this unspoken bond that we are misunderstood? Maybe not solely but it could lead to the "weird" factor. That same "weird" factor that the media LOVES to sensationalise. This unspoken bond is often referred to as the thing all furries are born with, I'm not saying it's a supernatural thing and I'm not implying you are literally born a furry. But the appreciation of the elements of what can lead to you being a furry is something I think can be deeply rooted.

Please by all means, challenge my thinking on this. Correct my assumptions and critique my opinion. I would love for the sake of personal introspection and understanding this wonderfully weird thing of ours, to hear what you think on the matter.
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Galahad
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Re: The furry public perception

#2

Post by Galahad »

I am going to play the politically incorrect devil's advocate on this one. We can't have an echo chamber going on, can we?

Several times, you make the point that sexuality and sexual deviancy are not a core part of the fandom:
I believe that we all as furries have a mutual interest in the concept behind our beloved animal people and it isn't animals or sex. Even if it is the sexual aspect that made you become a furry
We're not sexual deviants...
NOW add the feared sexual stuff into that mix. The narrative goes "Oh so you want to be a dog, you like seeing these dog people having sex, you must be attracted to animals then since you love them so much!" You see where I'm going with this? The unsuspecting public sees the naughty things and only sees the animal aspect of it. This is applicable in general to furry things. It's just that the sexual stuff hits harder, because SEX.
I partially agree with this, in that it would be grossly incorrect to brand all furries with the generalization for "sexual deviant". But I think you are underestimating the prevalence of sexual interest in the fandom. The fandom is not nearly as angelic and kids-friendly as some members here like to believe. Have some statistics:

The international anthropomorphic research project (IARP) of 2013, by Plante et al (available (HERE)) found that:
- 96.3% of male respondents viewed furry porn, and that 50.9% of all the furry artwork they view is pornographic in nature
(And keep in mind approximately three quarters of the fandom is biologically male)

The Winter 2011 International Online Furry Survey (available (HERE)) found:
- 37% answered that sexual attraction is important in their furry activities
- 38% were ambivalent on the issue
- 24% answered that it has little or nothing to do with their furry activities

On a less academically credible and more anecdotal note, one has only to turn off the maturity filter on FurAffinity and look at the 'recent artwork' page to get an idea of just how high the ratio of sexual content produced to SFW content produced is.

So is it a case of all furries being sexually charged delinquents? No.

But is it a case of the furry fandom being predominantly non-sexual and child-friendly? Also no. There is most certainly a significant sexual element to the fandom, and one cannot honestly pretend it is not there or cover it with a wallpaper of innocence.
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Re: The furry public perception

#3

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Galahad wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:05 pm On a less academically credible and more anecdotal note, one has only to turn off the maturity filter on FurAffinity and look at the 'recent artwork' page to get an idea of just how high the ratio of sexual content produced to SFW content produced is.
While I broadly agree with your post, here your anecdotal note doesn't seem too credible. The last analysis I'm aware of found that most sites have a majority of clean content. Certainly FA was 75% clean. That said, mature and adult work attracted far more views and comments.

Image

More detail on sources, etc: https://www.adjectivespecies.com/2015/1 ... tatistics/
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Re: The furry public perception

#4

Post by YoteFox »

Galahad wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:05 pm I am going to play the politically incorrect devil's advocate on this one. We can't have an echo chamber going on, can we?
This is exactly what I wanted from this! CHALLENGE ME! CONVINCE ME!
Galahad wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:05 pm I partially agree with this, in that it would be grossly incorrect to brand all furries with the generalization for "sexual deviant". But I think you are underestimating the prevalence of sexual interest in the fandom. The fandom is not nearly as angelic and kids-friendly as some members here like to believe.
I concur on this. I'm not under the of veil of what is going on in the community I've come to terms with it over time and I believe my somewhat of a comprehension is what has lead to my willingness to understand this deeper. Trust me I know full well the extent of what influence sex and sexuality has on the community and that it is indeed an aspect, there is no denying it. My opinion is that it really isn't a negative thing at all and shouldn't be seen as a negative issue either. See quote below:
YoteFox wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:02 pm yes there are many sexual things in this community. There's no denying that. Is it a bad thing? No, not at all. I believe it's a factor that can really enhance it for some
Yes people try to convince themselves it isn't about sex, but we really shouldn't ignore it or deny it. That just leads to it seemingly like we're hiding it? It's about how you view it. We also shouldn't be focusing on it? There's more to furries than sex I believe? (Question marks because I'm willing to discuss) Sex just has people's attention more than just about anything else, it's a primal instinct often still misunderstood. You can talk for hours about furries and what we do, but mention sex or porn and that is likely the only point the person is going to remember. Again let me emphasise that I'm not against or blaming the sexual aspect or even denying that it should exist or that it even exists to begin with. I hope that made sense? I like it and indulge in it
Galahad wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:05 pm But is it a case of the furry fandom being predominantly non-sexual and child-friendly? Also no. There is most certainly a significant sexual element to the fandom, and one cannot honestly pretend it is not there or cover it with a wallpaper of innocence.
I'm not in denial of this either, but the crux lies in calling it an element. It is an element, but behind the element there is reasoning as to why it exists in the first place. I believe that the sexual stuff is an enhancing feature of an underlying motivation. The furry fandom in itself isn't targeted toward children, it just appeals to children because of this same underlying motivation.

The existence of everything furry is as a result of this underlying motivation, which I believe is the the love of animations, fiction and cartoons. I could be wrong, this is only what I think. But there is some kind of motivation that we all share.

There seems to also be a slight misunderstanding that points to me trying to justify furries as "normal". I cannot and will not justify the furry fandom as normal since it's a matter of subjectivity, there are thousands of arguments around this and I'm not trying to debate subjectivity here. I'm trying to understand, maybe the deeper psychological attraction to being a furry. But before one can truly open you mind and understand this, you have to accept the furry community as it is.

At the end of the day, we are humans pretending to be animal people. Most of us adults, people like sex. Teenagers like sex. Sex is nice. Sex is an integral part of existence. I'd actually be surprised if the furry community didn't have sexual aspects and to be frankly honest I'd have less of an interest (maybe not that less, but the 18+ aspect is something I enjoy. Not for solely the porn. But being around adults for most of it). BUT Sex however wouldn't be why I'm a furry, it's an enhancing feature sure.

The perception of the furry community being a fetish? Is false. For the reasons I stated, some are indeed in it for the sex BUT the reason why it's specifically FURRY sex is the same underlying motivation I keep referring to. Yes you can say murrsuiting is as a fetish but again it's as a result of the underlying motivation same as porn of furries. Was it not for this underlying motivation furries would not exist.

I hope this made sense, if it doesn't I implore you to challenge my thinking or ask for motivation behind my opinions
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Re: The furry public perception

#5

Post by Leeward »

The concept of sexualising and fetishising one's interests is not unique to the furry fandom. Almost every fandom has erotic fanfiction, erotic fanart, or even erotic role-play. For example, I believe 50 Shades of Gray began as a Twilight fanfic. That doesn't by any means imply that the entire Twilight fandom is sexual in nature. Similarly, people might have erotic fantasies starring themselves as crew members of the USS Enterprise, but that doesn't make all trekkies deviants. They're just really into that particular theme, to the point where it turns them on. Therefore, admitting that there may be aspects of some or other fandom which are fetishised is completely besides the point of the fandom itself. Anything can be sexualised. Furries are no more sex-obsessed than the rest of society, they're just more open about it.
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Re: The furry public perception

#6

Post by YoteFox »

Leeward wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:02 pm Furries are no more sex-obsessed than the rest of society, they're just more open about it.
This is exactly my point regarding the sexual stuff I'm trying to get across here. Thank you!
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Re: The furry public perception

#7

Post by Galahad »

@Leeward:

What you say is true, but it is not in absolutes as your messages seems to indicate: "anything can be sexualized and other fandoms also sexualize their interests" doesn't take into account that just because two things are something, doesn't mean they are that something equally. I'd even wager you can empirically determine - on average - the core of which fandom is more sexualized, via polls and surveys. Or, at least, get a good idea of it. I just don't know of any currently, but I am sure they are out there.

For now, I'll just say - intuitively and anecdotally - that I'd even be willing to place a bet that the furry fandom is marginally more sexualized than the anime fandom, on the whole. And probably on par with the brony fandom in that aspect. (So tempted to make some deprecating jokes here, but I'll hold back. ;) )
YoteFox wrote:The perception of the furry community being a fetish? Is false. For the reasons I stated, some are indeed in it for the sex BUT the reason why it's specifically FURRY sex is the same underlying motivation I keep referring to.
I can agree with you in that the furry fandom isn't a "fetish", if only for technical reasons. And sure, one can spout the textbook definition that the furry fandom is a collective of people who are "fans of anthropomorphic animals" (the most famous definition), and nothing more. That sums it up nicely. But, as you pointed out, the furry fandom is multidimensional.

And what I am saying is that the negative (as judged by the public) aspects of it are prevalent and significant enough to understand, if not justify, a good deal of why the public casts furries in a bad light. The yin and the yang. And you can say that it's the negative that attracts more attention and sells more views so the media focuses more on it, but the fact is that negative is not completely made up, and the exaggeration isn't too wild. For example, there is actually a notable amount of sexual deviancy in the fandom, like it or not. For example, a 2008 anonymous online survey called "State of the Fandom" - available here - found that 18% of respondents had a positive attitude towards zoophilia, and 36% were "ambivalent". Waaaay more tolerant than you'd find in the general population. One has only to look at the legal status of... such interests, in most countries.


So the approach of justifying or downplaying it doesn't work.

The better approach is to emphasize the good, and confess to the bad and intend to fix it.
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Re: The furry public perception

#8

Post by YoteFox »

Galahad wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:32 am
So the approach of justifying or downplaying it doesn't work.

The better approach is to emphasize the good, and confess to the bad and intend to fix it.
This is also what I was thinking, instead of downright denying it when confronted. That seems to lead to more questions being raised than answered. What to do when confronted is play the "We're all humans" card, I'd say that is the best way. Also it is justified saying it isn't all about sex? Since it isn't? But this thread isn't a guide on how to talk to normies.
Galahad wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:32 am For example, a 2008 anonymous online survey called "State of the Fandom" - available here - found that 18% of respondents had a positive attitude towards zoophilia, and 36% were "ambivalent". Waaaay more tolerant than you'd find in the general population. One has only to look at the legal status of... such interests, in most countries.
This is very nice quantitative information that can be used in respects to justifying assumptions and allegations. But the point myself and Leeward were making is that it's not uncommon to find this in any interest and regardless of what information is out there, shouldn't really come as a shock to anyone. Wether one fandom is more sexual than another doesn't matter, they say no sin is greater than another. Imagine being asked if furries are sexual and you're just like: Well, Bronies you see :lol:
Galahad wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:32 am the furry fandom is marginally more sexualized than the anime fandom
*Squints eyes* That's a bold statement to make :lol:
Galahad wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:32 am found that 18% of respondents had a positive attitude towards zoophilia
Yikes! I wonder what the results would look like post Kerogate XD
Quite a lot of people are extremely outraged with what happened. But the issue with quantitive information like that is that it doesn't get into the psyche of the person answering. For instance you can have one person saying that Zoophilia is okay as long as you don't act on it and you can have another who's perfectly fine with acting on it and those answers could be compiled together and make up that 18%. Since I rate, you can't ask that directly (I haven't checked the information as of yet)
Galahad wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:32 am but the fact is that negative is not completely made up, and the exaggeration isn't too wild
Certainly I agree, as you said Ying and Yang. But for every action there is an opposite reaction. The media says furries are bad, furries claim we aren't bad. That's where it comes from I believe, people as well as furries themselves struggle to justify the fandom not being bad since we are all let to believe and mostly exposed by the media to the bad side. We shouldn't be justifying the fandom not being bad we should justify there being good to the fandom, instead of disproving the bad only. By saying constantly, we don't have macaroni when in fact we have macaroni and plenty of it that just leads to people trying to expose us for having macaroni and prove our claims wrong... hmmmm macaroni

Let them try and prove the good wrong instead of the claims of there being no bad
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Re: The furry public perception

#9

Post by Leeward »

Yeah sure there's some macaroni, but have you seen the metric fuck ton of lasanga?
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Re: The furry public perception

#10

Post by YoteFox »

Leeward wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:57 pm Yeah sure there's some macaroni, but have you seen the metric fuck ton of lasanga?
Furries be like:
lasagna.jpg
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Re: The furry public perception

#11

Post by Splicer-Fox »

Its too late to gate-keep.
I wonder if i should remain a true Scotsman.
I question If the hoards are furries, or if its just convenient.

Do most people find us because they love anthropomorphic art any more?
Or do people just join because of the community first?

The worst knocks too the furry fandom's rep is still coming.
We still have plenty Harvey Weinsteins' out there.
And people that have severe sexual requirements, also find the association with us convenient.
(Its no wonder we get depicted like in that CSI episode)
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Re: The furry public perception

#12

Post by Franky »

I strongly believe the furry community's obsession with validation from the public (which isn't as negative as most furries believe) is part of the stereotype the public draws up when thinking about furry.
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Re: The furry public perception

#13

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Splicer-Fox wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:17 pmDo most people find us because they love anthropomorphic art any more?
Or do people just join because of the community first?
What concerns me a bit are the people who mix what the community is like with what being a furry means. There are some people who say things like homophobia is not un-furry and stuff like that. But that's just not true. Furry is about a preference for certain characters. It is not about any particular politics or whatever, even if the community is skewed in a particular direction.

Edit: And speaking of messed up public perceptions. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... NIMAL.html
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Re: The furry public perception

#14

Post by Leeward »

Lol how on earth do you accidentally sign up to a furry convention? They're expensive!
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Re: The furry public perception

#15

Post by Galahad »

YoteFox wrote:Quite a lot of people are extremely outraged with what happened. But the issue with quantitive information like that is that it doesn't get into the psyche of the person answering. For instance you can have one person saying that Zoophilia is okay as long as you don't act on it and you can have another who's perfectly fine with acting on it and those answers could be compiled together and make up that 18%. Since I rate, you can't ask that directly (I haven't checked the information as of yet)
Some of the most homophobic people turn out to be gay. This example shows just because you vehemently oppose something, doesn't mean it's impossible that you subconsciously desire it. With the opposition to Kero (and let's not get into his case specifically, because that is a shitstorm that I'd rather not talk about too much), consider that humans tend to act in whatever way wins approval from the majority, even if it means disguising or hiding other motives. Because no-one wants to look like a bad or guilty person, right?

Now you could turn the argument around and say "aha! But then how can you say people who like it really like it, if you're so dismissive of the answers people give?" Simple - because expressing an unpopular opinion has a higher likelihood of being true, because an opinion that is said in alignment with the majority has the risk of being said only to conform and not look too suspicious. Not in all cases, obviously, but in a significant portion.

So don't be so keen to trust public outrage as some display of true mass morality.

Mob mentality is a thing. Especially in the case of furries. ;)
Splicer_Fox wrote:?
k.
Franky wrote:I strongly believe the furry community's obsession with validation from the public (which isn't as negative as most furries believe)
But mah fursecution persecution complex!
Last edited by Galahad on Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The furry public perception

#16

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Just remember, certain topics are not for the forum.
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Re: The furry public perception

#17

Post by Darq »

I know I'm way late to the discussion, but figured I'd chip in.

It's hard to get people to understand something they just don't grok. And that's okay. I don't understand some people's love of sports, or cars, or horror movies. No amount of explaining is going to give me that moment where I'm like "ohhh, I get it", because I just don't. And that's okay, many people will never understand why I like the things I like. Live and let live.

But this discussion got more interesting with the questions around "What is furry?"

As alluded to in the OP, furry is a lot of things to a lot of people. It's a blend between its theme, anthropomorphic animals, and its community. Someone can absolutely adore Zootopia, and still never find a place within the furry community. To me, furry is about expression, and is inherently interpersonal. We create these characters out of whole cloth. Representations of ourselves or what we desire to be, unconstrained by anything except our imaginations. And then we interact with each other, at least partially, through these expressions of ourselves. It's incredibly honest, in contrast to the reserved "public face" most people put in from day-to-day life. Furry has also shaped itself to be an extremely accepting community, by and large. And one of the things furry accepts, is sex. Sex is just normal within the community.

There's been some discussion online over the last few days about attempting to mainstream furry. And I agree with those who don't think we should. Keep furry weird, don't try to make it "normal". Because in doing so we sterilise what makes this community so special in the first place.
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Re: The furry public perception

#18

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

Darq wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:22 amTo me, furry is about expression, and is inherently interpersonal.
I always have a problem when people say this sort of thing because that's more describing what you get out furry than what furry is. Dance can be about personal expression. Playing the piano can be personal expression. But those things aren't furry. Maybe it's a small thing because perhaps you really mean that's what you get out of it but I think it does help to be clear about these things. When it comes to "what is furry" it is about the characters, not the politics, not the community and not the feelings we get out of it. Those may be important but they are not unique and they are not what makes something or someone furry.
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Re: The furry public perception

#19

Post by Darq »

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:33 am I always have a problem when people say this sort of thing because that's more describing what you get out furry than what furry is. Dance can be about personal expression. Playing the piano can be personal expression. But those things aren't furry. Maybe it's a small thing because perhaps you really mean that's what you get out of it but I think it does help to be clear about these things. When it comes to "what is furry" it is about the characters, not the politics, not the community and not the feelings we get out of it. Those may be important but they are not unique and they are not what makes something or someone furry.
I think what you are describing is just "anthropomorphic animals" or the "furry aesthetic". Which is technically correct I suppose. But it seems rather shallow a definition, and doesn't really tell the whole story about what furry is, a blend of both its theme and its community.

Within the anime fandom, most discussion is about various anime, news about anime, themes in anime, anime as a whole, various works related to anime, and so on. Going into music or dance community groups, one can expect most of the discussion to be about music or dance. In contrast, most of my conversations and interactions within the furry community have nothing to do with anthro artworks or the aesthetic. Rather furry often acts like a lens through which other social interactions happen.

Most furries make a fursona. That fursona is something personal to that individual. And fursonas are frequently how furries represent themselves to, and interact with, other furries. They're a huge part of what furry is, and are all about expression or interpersonal interaction.
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Re: The furry public perception

#20

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

I don't think it's a shallow definition at all. I think it's the difference between what furry is and a description of the community that is built around that.

I'm not sure your distinction with anime fandoms is really so clear. You will of course have discussions about anime and dance and whatever, that's what brought people in. Similarly, in the furry fandom, we discuss furry art, movies and so on. That's what this thread is for. A major aspect of the furry fandom is the production and consumption of furry art. There are few, if any places, which are called furry but devoid of furry content. It is what brings people together. And I agree that many conversations between furs are not about anthro art but I think that's the case wherever people have found friends. You will discuss all sorts of topics with your friends.

I would say the key here is what brought the people together in the first place. I certainly didn't say to myself "I need to find somewhere for self-expression" and then do the equivalent of picking furry out a catalogue. I saw furry content, it resonated and I went deeper and deeper and the community and friendship aspects then grew from that interest. It's nice to acknowledge the community aspects but the people in the community were drawn in for a shared reason. You don't get furs that have no interest in furry characters or art. It wouldn't even make sense.
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Re: The furry public perception

#21

Post by Darq »

I perhaps found furry because the art resonated with me, but that's not why I got involved, it's not why I interact with the community, and it's not why I'm here. I've made friends within the community without having a single discussion about anthro art.
Rakuen Growlithe wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:25 pm A major aspect of the furry fandom is the production and consumption of furry art. There are few, if any places, which are called furry but devoid of furry content. It is what brings people together. And I agree that many conversations between furs are not about anthro art but I think that's the case wherever people have found friends. You will discuss all sorts of topics with your friends.
This isn't my experience at all. I've joined many furry groups where no furry art is posted, aside from people's profile pictures and stickers. The groups ostensibly have nothing at all to do with furry, they are certainly not about appreciating furry content, but they are distinctly furry because of the people within them. The space is furry, even if the content is not.

The fact that there are furry sub-interests like moto-furs and dance-furs and gamer-furs and rpg-furs and so on, tells me that the community plays an integral part of what furry is. Searching for friends who like boardgames, within the dance community, sounds a little strange. Just go search in the boardgame community. But within the furry community, that sort of thing is common. People build and maintain cross-interest friend groups completely within furry. Some people even seem to date exclusively within furry.

Perhaps for some, liking anthro art is what furry is about. But for others, the aesthetic is the lens through which interaction happens, and the two are inextricable.
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Re: The furry public perception

#22

Post by YoteFox »

Franky wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:59 am I strongly believe the furry community's obsession with validation from the public (which isn't as negative as most furries believe) is part of the stereotype the public draws up when thinking about furry.
Oh I agree, but it's not just some need for validation that brings up the issue, it's when you are literally asked by someone what it is you are doing or what furry is and you give a unsatisfying answer that just opens the door for further interpretation and questions. I don't really think there is that much of a need for validation from the public as most furs can't be arsed about what people think, It's been quite evident from this post even though not dismissive of those who do have this need.

To me this post isn't trying to tell anyone what to think or say or gate keep for that matter, it's literally trying to understand why the original perception existed and why the public has such a skewed perspective on a technically harmless hobby that is grossly misunderstood. I think my title might be a bit misleading though. To understand the perception and address it in a way is to first understand the topic the perception is created about.
Galahad wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:13 pm Some of the most homophobic people turn out to be gay. This example shows just because you vehemently oppose something, doesn't mean it's impossible that you subconsciously desire it. With the...

So don't be so keen to trust public outrage as some display of true mass morality.

Mob mentality is a thing. Especially in the case of furries.
I do see your point here, I'm not relying on the public outrage on social media at all.
What I'm saying with this is that there is general dissent toward this, there are people who go out of their way to expose this and rid the community of these bad apples, these are the people that give me hope. But why do they do this? What drives them to want to get rid of these bad apples in the first place? Maybe because of illicit activities? Maybe because of an underlying factor that we all have but do not understand why?

I think honestly there is no solid explanation of "What furry is" like Aberguine said in one of her videos, if you had to ask 100 furries what a furry is, you would likely get 98 different answers. I agree with Darq that it's more an interpersonal thing. I believe however it's better to look at the why than the what to really attempt to understand furries. I did delve quite a lot into the reasons I believe why furries exist in the first place, the underlying aspect of it that is beyond social or actual definitions. The often overlooked reason because people don't tend to question why, but rather what or for that matter focus too much on the what and forget about why.

Furry's existence doesn't need justification in terms of the what and you can delve as deep as you want into the definition, but the definition is a shallow description and doesn't give anyone a real understanding of furry. It's the same with any community for that matter. I don't like anime I don't intend on delving deeper into it because I don't enjoy that style of art in particular but I understand why it exists and that allows me not to want to ostracise people who do enjoy it. But Anime is far easier to explain in terms of the what since it's an actual medium that exists.

I do also agree with Rakuen that art plays a massive role in the lives of all furries, it is our medium in a way but not wholly (think in terms of why that art or medium exists). After all the community found it's existence through art. However there is much more to the community than art solely, my main reason for participation is fursuits. Which is technically a wearable art piece but I didn't like fursuits because of that, I liked it because of the expressive features that coincide with fursuiting and furthermore getting to live out your love for a "cartoon character" in real life better than just some generic TV character, your own character made by yourself. If that isn't one of the ultimate forms of expression then I don't know.

But it's more than the community, it's more than the art produced by the community, it's more than the sub communities that exists within this community. I almost see these as benefits of the furry fandom rather than descriptive features of the furry fandom. Everyone has their own reason why they joined, for most it was a draw to one of these "sub communal" things. But there is a greater reasoning as to why we are fans of these anthropomorphic animals in the first place. I still don't 100% understand it and I'm not even sure if I ever will really.

I know it's easy to explain that: Oh the furry community made it's existence back when people took a specific interest in Anthro animals in that comic but then I implore you to think further than that, why did these people actually take that interest in the first place? What made them like it so much they decided to make an entire community out of it with people expressing their appreciation in the same ways? Certainly there is a communal factor involved here? Maybe the exact same communal factor that is still until this day there?

I don't know if I'm trying to complicate something that really isn't that complex, but certainly something as deep rooted as the furry fandom can't be as shallow as a simple definition? Why do we all even without ever having spoken to another furry have the same ideology around this topic of anthropomorphic animals? Even if for some the nuances differ but the base idea is the same?

I feel like a 5 year old constantly asking why :lol:
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Re: The furry public perception

#23

Post by Rakuen Growlithe »

I doubt that you will get an answer to your "why" question. Not that it's wrong to ask but I feel its something that can't really be answered. When you get to the level of preferences for things, the aspects that form the base of someone's character and personality, then they aren't things that are reasoned. Even when you can get to reasons like "X is a furry because they had no friends as a child and only bonded with their pet cat," those won't apply on a wide scale. And there will be exceptions which leave more questions. I think it will probably always be something like asking me why blue is my favourite colour. It looks and feels nice to me. Why does it do that? I can't say. It just does. Like music tastes, favourite colours, foods you enjoy or hate. The only reasons that we have access to are just that it feels that way. I'm not sure we are capable of truly understanding ourselves below that level.
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Re: The furry public perception

#24

Post by YoteFox »

I guess that's what fascinates me the most about being a furry, as you said it can be comparable as to liking a certain colour. It's just that, there doesn't need to be a reasoning. One could argue that it just is what it is. Almost like something you are born with, although I highly doubt it, as the same with liking the color you are subjected to it at some stage in your life and you form a bond with it. Maybe that's what I'm looking for?

The psychological reasoning behind it. Being a furry forms part of our personalities, it's a deep personal thing that I rate we can't exactly explain why. We just resonate with the furry fandom and the ideas around it because the furry fandom offers just that which we like or are interested in. This is why explaining to others the fascination with the furry fandom, is so difficult. The same for any fascination really. This is what I find truly amazing and mind boggling about the furry fandom and life for that matter.

It's like trying to explain why I enjoy auditing, some people hate it. I love it, I'm not sure why but high level business fascinate me. It compliments my personality so well that I just absolutely enjoy what it has to offer. Same for furries for that matter, I enjoy what it has to offer. Why? I'm not sure, for me personally I would say cartoons and artistic expression (I'm 24 and I still watch cartoons daily).

But I think it's safe to conclude by now that there is no ultimate blanket reasoning, each person's reason why they are a furry is a deep rooted personal reason and requires a lot of unpacking to truly explain. Yes this might be stating the obvious, it's a well known fact everyone has their own reason for participation in the furry congregation (Kurrel the Raven Rip-off xD). But this thread helped me understand that better and I hope it helped others also think a bit deeper. I don't want to conclude on this, but for the sake of my own sanity.

This doesn't mean it's over, by all means continue posting on this thread. I find people's responses to this fascinating. To quote adventure time Princess Bubblegum said in Season 7 episode 1: "People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it. Maybe he likes his company more than I like mine".
I'd rather be fursuiting

Suit up and it will make you feel better
- Pepper Coyote


People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it. Maybe he likes his company more than I like mine - Princess Bubblegum
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