Fursona creation help

[Leeward]

That's just being a bully and trying to pretend you're being nice.

Pointing out the truth is not being a bully. I agree on your other points though, this is beyond pointless.

[Sev]

I think that there comes a time when you must move on and forget about things, Lee.
They're just not worth it.

[Badge]

Speaking only as someone who themselves is very much in the thick of learning to draw I can state this.

Templates a a great tool for learning proportion and and placement.
Tutorials reveal many small points the eye misses when putting a piece together.
I'm ridiculously terrible at shading and it contines to be the bane of my art.

As for my personal line of growth, working on various different species, tons of reference pics in the corner of the drawing have been a saving grace.
If I am particularly stuck on a piece, I abandon it for a while before going back to it and as I have grown I have learnt that I can easier spot the problem areas and points in a drawing.

I will continue to reference animals and in my admiration of other artists work pick up things that either end up working well or teaching me why it didnt work.

However you attempt to improve, I wish you the best.

[Kspore]

There's no point asking for advice if you're just going to ignore it.

Yes, I did ask for advice.
And I took the advice that I perceived as the right way to go. I did not want to use a template as it not not my style as to use them. It feels as if I'm just recycling someone else's work. Now that is my OPINION and I will stand by that.

That being said, I do appreciate the input even though I won't be using it (referring to the use of templates).
Please, I still NEED advice. I want to improve, and I will use the advice that I feel will help.

That's just being a bully and trying to pretend you're being nice.

Pointing out the truth is not being a bully. I agree on your other points though, this is beyond pointless.

(Please read this in a positive way)
The truth is, I can't draw well and I am trying to improve.
The truth is, I don't feel as if your advice would help me and I do not agree with it. (But I thank you for taking the time to write it)
The truth is, you are not a bully. You gave out your opinion on how it should have been done and I disagreed with it. And although we disagree with each other, I will still thank you for trying to help.
The truth is, I am not going to use a template no matter how many times you are going to force this on to me. That is not saying, I don't want advice. That is just saying that I don't agree with that advice.

Lastly, you may think I'm not making progress and that I'm doing it the wrong way. But in the end, its my fursona I'm working on. And yes I'm going to make mistakes and it is going to take me a long time to finish. But I'm willing to put in the effort to make it the best I can make it. (That is not saying I don't accept criticism, or your advice. It means its my project in the end and it is up to me how it will eventually be done)

So thank you everybody who has commented here.
I appreciate your input and will keep you updated on my "progress".

[Nasheera]

I'm not going to contribute to the previous discussion in this thread. I'm going to start anew and throw in my 2c.

Okay, so I take to drawing a little bit differently. To draw well, you have to enjoy what you're drawing.
You want to draw Kspore, but he has to be more than just a grey and blue wolf to you. Think of him as a part of you and not just a few scribbles on a piece of paper.

I suggest thinking about your fursona's personality and style a bit more before your next drawing attempt. What are his likes? His dislikes? His favourite ice-cream toppings? Does he relate to you or his he your alter ego?
Think of him as a living being. Add some life to him! Be proud and excited about the character you've created and it'll show through your work.

[Sudan Red]

I'm not going to contribute to the previous discussion in this thread. I'm going to start anew and throw in my 2c.

Okay, so I take to drawing a little bit differently. To draw well, you have to enjoy what you're drawing.
You want to draw Kspore, but he has to be more than just a grey and blue wolf to you. Think of him as a part of you and not just a few scribbles on a piece of paper.

I suggest thinking about your fursona's personality and style a bit more before your next drawing attempt. What are his likes? His dislikes? His favourite ice-cream toppings? Does he relate to you or his he your alter ego?
Think of him as a living being. Add some life to him! Be proud and excited about the character you've created and it'll show through your work.

I cannot agree more on this point. It shouldn't be so much of a chore. I want to suggest that you compare each new drawing you do to a real life reference. Notice the differences between the two and the similarities. Make changes to your next drawing.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Kspore]

I'm not going to contribute to the previous discussion in this thread. I'm going to start anew and throw in my 2c.

Okay, so I take to drawing a little bit differently. To draw well, you have to enjoy what you're drawing.
You want to draw Kspore, but he has to be more than just a grey and blue wolf to you. Think of him as a part of you and not just a few scribbles on a piece of paper.

I suggest thinking about your fursona's personality and style a bit more before your next drawing attempt. What are his likes? His dislikes? His favourite ice-cream toppings? Does he relate to you or his he your alter ego?
Think of him as a living being. Add some life to him! Be proud and excited about the character you've created and it'll show through your work.

Thanks Chloe.
Yes, Kspore means a lot to me. He is me, and that's why I refuse to use a template for him. I need to create him as I would create myself, build him piece by piece if I have to.

Thanks, your 2c was very helpful

And Sudan.
I will continue to make changes to my drawings, whether big or small. I will eventually get it right.

[Kspore]

Hi everyone

Sorry I haven't been giving you updates in a while. I have been very busy and I haven't gotten much time to work on it lately.

I have made a couple, ( not very good ) sketches in between, trying different angles and such.
Anyway, I need advice on how to work the arms. I don't know what pose to put them in and how to get it like that. In short, I don't know how to go on by the construction of the arms and hands.

If any of you can give me advice on that, I will appreciate it a lot.


Hope you all are having a great day

[Trace]

Hi everyone

Sorry I haven't been giving you updates in a while. I have been very busy and I haven't gotten much time to work on it lately.

I have made a couple, ( not very good ) sketches in between, trying different angles and such.
Anyway, I need advice on how to work the arms. I don't know what pose to put them in and how to get it like that. In short, I don't know how to go on by the construction of the arms and hands.

If any of you can give me advice on that, I will appreciate it a lot.


Hope you all are having a great day

Arms are hard... I tend to have trouble with them myself... Typically, starting with bone structure and working from there can be really helpful. Basically, making lines to show where limbs go, and then adding substance from there. I'd recommend looking at pictures of people for examples of poses. Maybe also try out some poses in front of the mirror. It may feel silly, but can be surprisingly helpful.
As far as hands go... Hands are one of the hardest things to draw well. The most helpful piece of advice for me has been to start out with a mitten shape, then from there making the individual fingers and such.
Anyway, I hope that this helps at all. Let me know if you'd like me to try to go into more detail, but others may be able to help more than I can.

[Kspore]

Thanks Trace that does help a bit.

I do start with the bone structure thing, I just can't seem to get an actual pose that I like let alone draw it

Hmmmm.
No one is here, guess I'm going to the mirror for a while.
I hope that helps

Yeah.
The hands are difficult but I will just have to try until I get them right

You can go in it in more detail if you want.
I know nothing about drawing, any advice would help

Oh well
Thanks again for the help.

Let's see if I can finish a drawing

[Faanvolla]

Doing your fursona in a cosplay of some character can help, since they usually have a 'famous pose' or items to hold, which make the hand and arms easier.

[Kspore]

YES

Its another one of my drawings, don't get too excited now. I know the forum has been a little shy on drama lately but stay calm. (This is a JOKE, don't take it seriously. I can take criticism, even I'm not going to listen to SOME of it on occasion. Well the parts I don't agree with, like any normal person would. Maybe I'm explaining this too much)

Anyway.
Like all my drawings, I'm am proud of this one. (Mainly because I actually finished it)
But mostly because I put a lot of effort into them, even if it doesn't seem that way.

Anyway.
I'm sure that you just want to see the pic by now.
Or not, who knows?

So...

[Leeward]

It's a marginal improvement, but it still looks pretty much exactly the same as every single predecessor in this thread. Still, progress is progress I suppose.

I can take criticism, even [though] I'm not going to listen to SOME of it on occasion. Well the parts I don't agree with, like any normal person would.

Ignoring criticism is by definition the opposite of taking it. Doing so just because you don't like it doesn't leave much room for accepting any, especially in your case since I've literally never seen you agree with any of it so far. But you're right, nobody likes negative feedback, and most people are too stubborn or proud to agree with it, so in that regard you are indeed normal.

[SilverFox12578]

Hey Spore!
I know how much effort you've been putting into this picture. For someone who has only recently started to draw I say you're doing great. There's always room for improvement with every artist. Keep practicing and don't give up no matter what anyone says.

[Galahad]

Ignoring criticism is by definition the opposite of taking it. Doing so just because you don't like it doesn't leave much room for accepting any, especially in your case since I've literally never seen you agree with any of it so far.

But dear Miss Lee, is refusing to eat a portion of the cake equal to rejecting the whole? If KSpore is true to his word and at least accepts some wholesome criticism, it is a start. And I think we would be grateful for him to accept even a scrap of that criticism cake.

Spore, I think it looks good for a beginner. You still have much to improve on: for example, body proportions. For most people, the height of the torso and head is shorter than that of the legs. Just some more detail on the fur or musculature would also look good. Nonetheless, there is some progress, especially from your first drawing. Keep it up.

[Kspore]

Ignoring criticism is by definition the opposite of taking it. Doing so just because you don't like it doesn't leave much room for accepting any, especially in your case since I've literally never seen you agree with any of it so far.

But dear Miss Lee, is refusing to eat a portion of the cake equal to rejecting the whole? If KSpore is true to his word and at least accepts some wholesome criticism, it is a start. And I think we would be grateful for him to accept even a scrap of that criticism cake.

Spore, I think it looks good for a beginner. You still have much to improve on: for example, body proportions. For most people, the height of the torso and head is shorter than that of the legs. Just some more detail on the fur or musculature would also look good. Nonetheless, there is some progress, especially from your first drawing. Keep it up.

Thanks Galahad.

I know that I have a lot to improve on. The body are portions are off a bit, I was trying to get a sort of crouching pose and didn't really show that with the shading. That being said I still think it would have been off. But I will work on it.
And I'll try work on incorporating more details

Thanks again.

Hey Spore!
I know how much effort you've been putting into this picture. For someone who has only recently started to draw I say you're doing great. There's always room for improvement with every artist. Keep practicing and don't give up no matter what anyone says.

Thanks Silver
I'm not giving up any time soon.

[Kspore]

It's a marginal improvement, but it still looks pretty much exactly the same as every single predecessor in this thread. Still, progress is progress I suppose.

I can take criticism, even [though] I'm not going to listen to SOME of it on occasion. Well the parts I don't agree with, like any normal person would.

Ignoring criticism is by definition the opposite of taking it. Doing so just because you don't like it doesn't leave much room for accepting any, especially in your case since I've literally never seen you agree with any of it so far. But you're right, nobody likes negative feedback, and most people are too stubborn or proud to agree with it, so in that regard you are indeed normal.

Thanks you for noticing that have improved. That's really nice of you.

I'm not ignoring it. I'm am basing my actions on the criticism that I find helpful towards my situation. I incorporate the information that I agree with, not the info I "like". If it makes sense, I will use it. That being said, everyone is different and every one has different styles. I build on my drawings when I find a new technique I can try in. I don't have a lot of free time, therefor I can't practise in as many techniques as you would like me to show. My style is not the same as yours. We have different opinions.
That's why I may not AGREE with the same things as you do.

I'm sorry if you haven't seen criticism that I agree with.
I really am.


Yes, people can be stubborn. I know a lot about that.
But I explain my reasoning behind it, you just don't seem to accept my reasoning. I'm sorry if seem stubborn towards you. I hope you view changes.


And thanks Galahad for your opinion on this.

[Leeward]

It's not that I disagree, it's just that I don't understand how on earth you're hoping to achieve your goal by doing what you're doing. Life isn't like Skyrim where you can powerlevel blacksmithing by making a gazillion iron daggers and then by some miracle you can now make Daedric armour; no, you'll just become really good at making iron daggers, which is pretty useless if you want to make anything else. I find it just as frustrating watching your progress as watching a trained elephant paint the same crude drawing over and over again. There's no two ways about it: if you're trying to learn to draw, you're doing it wrong. And that's not just my opinion, any artist will back me up on this. But you seem dead set on doing it your way regardless, so I'll stop repeating myself because clearly it's going in through one ear and straight out the other.

Maybe I can provide some context though... I used to do the same thing as you. I have a drawer at my parents' house filled with literally hundreds of drawings of dragons. And throughout my school career I became a really kickass dragon artist. But for the life of me I couldn't draw anything else. And people kept telling me, "Why don't you try something else for once?" and giving me books for beginner artists, but I wasn't interested because I didn't want to draw anything other than my dragons. Now I regret it; I wish I had learned to draw in general, and I envy talented artists like RavenSong and Electrocat because they have thousands of hours of practice and failures under their belts that I will never be able to catch up on. It's one of my biggest regrets in life. You're young, your brain is still wired for learning skills for life. Please take full advantage of that while it lasts, because I promise you, you will miss it once it's gone.

Hopefully this helps you understand why I find watching your progress so distressing. I'm seeing natural talent go to waste, and I think it's a real shame... so I hope you realise, accept and remedy it before it's too late.

[Raven Song]

Leeward you also have to remember that sometimes advice is all fine and well but if I cannot implement it (as in I simply do not know how to accurately and confidently implement it) then it's of no use to me.

If someone says to me on a forum "when you cut onions you need to do x" that's not going to help me because I can't cut onions in the first place (poor example but you get my drift I hope).

Until KSpore has reached a personal level of proficiency, as in INTERNALLY he feels he can do those things suggested, telling him to do those things then getting upset that he didn't follow those instructions/advice isn't going to happen. Because right now, he physically can't! In the future, as he improves himself, he will be able to take those on.

Also I just blushed like a madwoman having hot flashes when I saw you are envious of me!!! Girl I'm envious of you!! Have you seen that suit you made??? I can't even get triangle frikken ears to function

Also I agree with you on the whole dragon thing... for a very long time I could only draw horses, then it was only wolves. It took me a very long time to readjust my brain and we as artists "settle" way to easily for what is easy for us... artists don't naturally like pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zones because we fear failure. Why EC and Nannuuk are as successful as they are is they have gotten over that and can now draw everything.

so to this point I will say to you KSpore, do not become comfortable. if you see a bird outside draw it, no matter how weird it may end up looking... because one day you may need to know how to draw that bird and you'll thank us then!

[Leeward]

Also I agree with you on the whole dragon thing... for a very long time I could only draw horses, then it was only wolves. It took me a very long time to readjust my brain and we as artists "settle" way to easily for what is easy for us... artists don't naturally like pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zones because we fear failure. Why EC and Nannuuk are as successful as they are is they have gotten over that and can now draw everything.

so to this point I will say to you KSpore, do not become comfortable. if you see a bird outside draw it, no matter how weird it may end up looking... because one day you may need to know how to draw that bird and you'll thank us then!

This is exactly what I've been trying to say, albeit not as sensitively. You can't ever hope to become any good if you stay inside a tiny little comfort zone. Raven and I have both been there, done that. It's not a good feeling in hindsight, and we're just trying to avoid you the pain of regret.

Also I just blushed like a madwoman having hot flashes when I saw you are envious of me!!! Girl I'm envious of you!! Have you seen that suit you made??? I can't even get triangle frikken ears to function

Small girls want melons, big girls want guavas. Everyone envies someone else.

[Raven Song]

I don't like either of those fruits... can I have pancakes

[Leeward]

That was a metaphor for boobs...

[Raven Song]

I know.. i stand by previous statement

[Kspore]

Okay.

First off, I understand where both of you are coming from and I know its frustrating to watch someone who doesn't seem to be improving. That being said, this thread was for my fursona. A way to test myself if I can be creative, to see if I should learn to draw. (That doesnt mean to say I don't draw other things. Recently I started drawing random things around we so that I can practise seeing shapes in other things. But this forum was only for my fursona)

It was a way of seeing how people will react to me drawing. That's why my drawings are soon similar, I feel I can't continue learning if can't even get you to compliment one drawing, one drawing I have spent a lot of time on. Its frustrating to me that I can't get you to compliment my hard work. Makes me feel as if all this work was for nothing, so why bother trying to learn more.

I'm not a creative person, and its hard for me to find time to draw. So its hard for me to find time to learn how to draw. This was my way of seeing if I could. Try and see if I have it in me.

And by the look of it.... I'm not sure.

[Cape_F0X]

I feel I can't continue learning if can't even get you to compliment one drawing, one drawing I have spent a lot of time on. Its frustrating to me that I can't get you to compliment my hard work. Makes me feel as if all this work was for nothing, so why bother trying to learn more.

You have to do art for yourself. This is your character, he is new to this world and you want the world to acknowledge him. You should add life and personality to this wolf. People are unfortunately not keen on complementing empty husks.

[Kspore]

I feel I can't continue learning if can't even get you to compliment one drawing, one drawing I have spent a lot of time on. Its frustrating to me that I can't get you to compliment my hard work. Makes me feel as if all this work was for nothing, so why bother trying to learn more.

You have to do art for yourself. This is your character, he is new to this world and you want the world to acknowledge him. You should add life and personality to this wolf. People are unfortunately not keen on complementing empty husks.

To be honest, I don't know how to properly answer this.

This is my character, and its taken a lot of time and effort to get it as it stands now. I am not an artist, I don't have a talent for drawing. I fell as if you are putting pressure on me to do something that I can't (at the moment). I feel as if you are expecting too much from me.

I started this project, without knowing a single thing about drawing and never have really drawn anything for a purpose. I have put a lot of effort into this drawing to get it to where it is. Unfortunately I don't have much free time to work on my drawings and that's why changes are minimal. But I'm trying my best and I don't think you can see that.

Would I love to be able to able to make a proper character, yes but I don't have the ability to do so. I'm still learning, that's too advanced for me at the moment.

You make it sound as if I'm not doing enough but I'm doing all I can. Trying to learn new things. (Like I said before, I only put my fursona pics here).


Anyway.
Sorry I took so long to reply. It has been a busy week.

[Leeward]

"I want to build a car, but I'm not an engineer and I don't know anything about cars. It's MY car, and I'm going to design it from scratch. I don't care if people are telling me that it's not going to work, or I'm that doing it wrong, or that there are standard procedures that have been perfected over the last few centuries. I'm learning, and I'm making progress, even if you can't tell because it doesn't start. Don't expect me to be able to make a Ferrari, you're expecting too much of me. I'm putting a lot of effort in and trying my best and you're mean and stupid if you can't tell that from my go-CARt (it's got "car" in it so it's a car). I don't need a mechanic's help, I can figure it out on my own."

That's what you sound like.

[Cape_F0X]

You should add life and personality to this wolf.

Sorry if this came across as bossy. It's a suggestion, something you should consider when you're up for the challenge.

[Galahad]

Spore, please, take a step back and relax. It is not that we are attacking you or your art - or, at least, not intentionally doing so.

I cannot talk on behalf of Cape and Lee. Yet, for my own part, I support your artistic endeavour and I wish to see you improve. I have seen the progress you have made, even if it is small, and I understand the learning curve of art is, for most people, one that is long and rises gradually. Even if there is what looks like a shortage of compliments, it is because, to be candid, your art has not reached "wow!" or "amazing!" status yet, and thus one cannot reasonably expect you to be showered with praise. Yet that in no way means you have no potential. You do. The drawings you have posted are evidence - as long as you have the drive and realistic goals.

As your skills improve, as you accept and apply constructive criticism, and as you push yourself despite others being left unimpressed by your beginner efforts, you will grow as an artist. Hence, bound by honesty, I cannot say your art is "awesome!" or "magnificent!" right now, today, 17 November 2016, but I can say that it looks good considering where you began, and that I truly and honestly look forward to seeing you continue. And if you continue down the path of improvement, eventually, I - and no doubt others - will be saying "wow!", "awesome!" and "magnificent!"

May I please share two screenshots with you that show what sort of artist I used to be, and what I draw now? There is a point I wish to make that I think might help you in the long run.

[Kspore]

"I want to build a car, but I'm not an engineer and I don't know anything about cars. It's MY car, and I'm going to design it from scratch. I don't care if people are telling me that it's not going to work, or I'm that doing it wrong, or that there are standard procedures that have been perfected over the last few centuries. I'm learning, and I'm making progress, even if you can't tell because it doesn't start. Don't expect me to be able to make a Ferrari, you're expecting too much of me. I'm putting a lot of effort in and trying my best and you're mean and stupid if you can't tell that from my go-CARt (it's got "car" in it so it's a car). I don't need a mechanic's help, I can figure it out on my own."

That's what you sound like.

I never said that I don't need help. And I do appreciate the help that you and others have tried to give me. And I really do appreciate the effort some have put in to help me get better.
I haven't ignored the advice given. If I didn't agree, I stated why.

Futhermore, such as you can't tell a mechanic build an engine, because he\she doesn't know how to do that. (If we are talking about a person who is still trying to learn)
I'm still learning how to draw, I'm sorry if I'm making slow progress but its a long process to become better at a skill like that. It just doesn't show up over night. I don't draw often, this is a new skill I'm trying to learn, and its going to be a while till I get it right.


I never said my drawings are spectacular, I know they don't deserve applause or great things to be said about them. I was referring to complimented of my progress and encouraging me to do better. I'm not good at this skill, but you are making it seem as if the it is useless for me to continue. Well, I'm not giving up.


Next.
I'm have not called you mean or stupid. I did not agree with some of the points you have made, but I tried to act in a civil way towards you. And if it doesn't seem that way, well I'm sorry for bringing you down.


And lastly I do care what all of you have been saying.
Yes, I have disagreed with some things but I am listening and I am trying.

Sorry if it seems like I'm not listening to your advice but I am practising some of it in.

You should add life and personality to this wolf.

Sorry if this came across as bossy. It's a suggestion, something you should consider when you're up for the challenge.

Nah, its okay Cape.

Sorry, that my drawings haven't been good.
I'm trying, I just don't know how start with implementing a personality into my character.

Thanks for trying to help me though, I will try and improve my work.