ZA Furries

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:52 pm**

Zagamun had (and still has) every right to use the forum logo, as does Eylof. Whether it is logical or fair does not matter, that's just how it is, not my opinion.

It astounds me that nobody seemed to care that there was a zafur discord server until somebody (Rakuen) realised it was using the forum branding, and suddenly it was a disagreement to be amicably resolved. And then you had to go and re-create it with yourselves in charge, because now that you know there's a demand for it there has to be a zafur discord server, but an official one. Nice power trip.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:57 pm**

From my side, I apologize for causing such a disturbance in regards to that. You want an admittance of guilt, I asked that it be taken down yes.

However, Valerion and I both explained a particular position in respect to it and that should honestly be the end of it. It was thought to be creative property in the very least of ZAFur and had people asked to be able to use the logo it would have been a different story altogether.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 pm**

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:52 pmZagamun had (and still has) every right to use the forum logo, as does Eylof. Whether it is logical or fair does not matter, that's just how it is, and not my opinion.

No, he does not. You can't misrepresent yourself as being part of something and use the logo and name without permission.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:04 pm**

Would you kindly back that up, please?

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:14 pm**

The Discord group that I created, was to show how quickly people will lose their head about petty stuff.

Right anyway, as a business owner myself I can say , please show me the documents stating that the logo may not be used by anyone else.
If the "copyright/Trademark" documents can not be presented then the logo is allowed to be used by whom ever.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:17 pm**

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherz ... 0224a23300

Creative licensing at the very least. Do you take other people's art and post it as your own?

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:21 pm**

It would actually probably be considered an unregistered trademark which is valid due to use and protected under common law.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... 54075fec60

Ownership of a trademark is established on a first-to-use basis. Registration is not mandatory to establish rights.

Unregistered trademarks are protected under the common law. /../ This includes the act of passing off, where a trader misrepresents its business or product as that of or associated with that of another, resulting in a reasonable likelihood of confusion among the public.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:25 pm**

I can latterly go and pay an amount to claim the logo as my own, since it has not been registered.
If you want to copyright stuff do it right, otherwise it's free for the taking.

In court it will not hold up "But I designed it, its mine" the judge will ask do you have proof and reg. claiming it is yours? and you say no the case will be dismissed.
Don't understand even why there is a problem be proud about people from ZA using the ZA furry logo on ZA servers.
What difference does it make if someone use it? will you lose money? Probably not you get "free" advertisement for the ZA furry fandom and it's site.

I'm Done

E.Wolf OUT

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:25 pm**

Ivic_Wulfe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:17 pmDo you take other people's art and post it as your own?

In theory you can without issue as long as you're not benefiting from it.

Ivic_Wulfe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:17 pmforbes.com

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:21 pmlexology.com

Also it varies by country so don't assume that a US law applies in SA.

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:21 pmwhere a trader misrepresents its business or product as that of or associated with that of another, resulting in a reasonable likelihood of confusion among the public.

None of the underlined apply.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:28 pm**

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:25 pmAlso it varies by country so don't assume that a US law applies in SA.

Hence why it was specifically about SA.

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:25 pmNone of the underlined apply.

Artyloop was under the impression the Discord server was official so there was confusion. In fact, there being confusion is what pointed to there being a problem.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:29 pm**

One person is not the public.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:31 pm**

This thing has been blown out of proportion. It was, but the conversation could have continued if they wanted to use the logo. This is my conversation with Zaga up and until the logo was changed.

Ivic Wulfe, [03.02.18 17:18]
Not too much, I'm one of the admins for ZAfur and we're wondering about the use of the logo for ZAfur and the name of your group. Did you get permissions to use that from any of the other admins?

Z [03.02.18 17:18]
The name is pretty generic. Sorry about the logo though, I can change that.

Z [03.02.18 17:19]
The forum name is ZAFur, the server is just ZA Furries

Ivic Wulfe, [03.02.18 17:19]
I get that. I'll speak to Rakuen about it

Ivic Wulfe, [03.02.18 17:20]
Thanks for being accomodating.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:34 pm**

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 pm
Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:52 pmZagamun had (and still has) every right to use the forum logo, as does Eylof. Whether it is logical or fair does not matter, that's just how it is, and not my opinion.
No, he does not. You can't misrepresent yourself as being part of something and use the logo and name without permission.

Sorry doesn't quite work like that.
And FYI I have been sued over worse shit than this... and as a result I know the lie of the land about this sort of thing. Those that "get on their high horse about their supposed logo" usually come off second best. Knowing how things work here, I seriously doubt you're about to go off and lodge documents at the CIPC because you either don't have the money or you don't care about the fandom that much. I think the latter is closer to the truth.

Also, under current South African law, I can go design a t-shirt tomorrow and print it, using a stylized ZAFur logo and put the words under it "ZA Faggots" or some such... and you cannot do a thing to me about it. You'll just waste a lot of money in lawyering up, that is, if you have that kind of money to spend anyway.

For what its worth, I used your logo on a website for a long time, and you had nothing to say about that, oddly enough. I deleted it once you began to piss me off.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:35 pm**

Ivic_Wulfe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:31 pm This thing has been blown out of proportion.

It is being blown out of proportion, yes. Mostly because Rakuen insists on acting like he knows better but meanwhile he's just googling for articles (which may be outdated or biased) that support his argument instead of providing the actual acts.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:37 pm**

I will note that South Africa is a Berne Convention country, and as such copyright registration is not mandatory to gain protection.

http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/bern ... berne.html

(1) The three basic principles are the following:

(a) Works originating in one of the Contracting States (that is, works the author of which is a national of such a State or works first published in such a State) must be given the same protection in each of the other Contracting States as the latter grants to the works of its own nationals (principle of "national treatment") [1].

(b) Protection must not be conditional upon compliance with any formality (principle of "automatic" protection) [2].

(c) Protection is independent of the existence of protection in the country of origin of the work (principle of "independence" of protection). If, however, a Contracting State provides for a longer term of protection than the minimum prescribed by the Convention and the work ceases to be protected in the country of origin, protection may be denied once protection in the country of origin ceases [3].

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 pm**

Rakuen Growlithe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:28 pm Artyloop was under the impression the Discord server was official so there was confusion. In fact, there being confusion is what pointed to there being a problem.

Let me correct you- I KNEW FROM THE START it had no affiliation with ZAfur. I started there because I asked Leeward where I could interact with furries. The fact that it was called that, and was absent of you or anyone else, immediately made me feel at ease, and also flipped the flag in my head to know you're not in control of it.

Stop assuming you know what goes on in my mind or the minds of any other furries for that matter.

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Ivic_Wulfe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:31 pm This thing has been blown out of proportion.
It is being blown out of proportion, yes. Mostly because Rakuen insists on acting like he knows better but meanwhile he's just googling for articles (which may be outdated or biased) that support his argument instead of providing the actual acts.

That is why people don't like him and why he irritates me to no end. Nothing he posts is original, its like talking to a bloody machine, or perhaps a piece of AI software that is connected to the Google search engine.

And I am sorry to say, as someone who has used logos, worked with copy writing and DTP and handled company branding, your claim about copyright on this forum is about as weak as pissing in the wind.
But if that is how its going to play out, I suggest you better get the copyright statements on the forum ASAP. I also then will stop posting here as you will then not be entitled to claim copyright on my posts.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:46 pm**

Looking back you did use official in quotation marks, although you also stated that the logo and the same name combined were reasons it felt more official. So it's difficult to say that there is no confusion while at the same time maintaining it seems more related than other Discord servers.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:52 pm**

OMFG, would it kill you to stop nitpicking insignificant bullshit and admit you're wrong, for once in your life?

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:02 pm**

ArtyLoop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 pm
Rakuen Growlithe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:28 pm Artyloop was under the impression the Discord server was official so there was confusion. In fact, there being confusion is what pointed to there being a problem.
Let me correct you- I KNEW FROM THE START it had no affiliation with ZAfur. I started there because I asked Leeward where I could interact with furries. The fact that it was called that, and was absent of you or anyone else, immediately made me feel at ease, and also flipped the flag in my head to know you're not in control of it.

Stop assuming you know what goes on in my mind or the minds of any other furries for that matter.

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Ivic_Wulfe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:31 pm This thing has been blown out of proportion.
It is being blown out of proportion, yes. Mostly because Rakuen insists on acting like he knows better but meanwhile he's just googling for articles (which may be outdated or biased) that support his argument instead of providing the actual acts.
That is why people don't like him and why he irritates me to no end. Nothing he posts is original, its like talking to a bloody machine, or perhaps a piece of AI software that is connected to the Google search engine.

And I am sorry to say, as someone who has used logos, worked with copy writing and DTP and handled company branding, your claim about copyright on this forum is about as weak as pissing in the wind.
But if that is how its going to play out, I suggest you better get the copyright statements on the forum ASAP. I also then will stop posting here as you will then not be entitled to claim copyright on my posts.

Please indicate where I said I would claim copyright on any of your art pieces here? Please indicate where I have taken such an action in the past?

The ONLY part we object to is the use of the forum logo in an unauthorized manner, or the ZAFur name. I was under the impression that would be simple courtesy. Clearly I was mistaken.

Back to the topic at hand, I will open the server over the weekend.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:08 pm**

Leeward wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:52 pm OMFG, would it kill you to stop nitpicking insignificant bullshit and admit you're wrong, for once in your life?

Nope he won't he knows everything and is always right, as I've come to learn over the years.
The fail in this thread just blows my mind...

If it was my little empire, I'd be glad someone started up a Discord server and I didn't have to take time out of my schedule to manage it.
This whole matter has nothing to do with copyright or whatnot actually. People are using the logo I designed for my projects on e621!!!!!!!!!

So do you see me going out there and threatening the owner and telling him to TAKE DOWN DAT LOGO.

You know what, this is an exercise in futility, I am tired of banging my head against stupid!
This shit has wasted enough of my time, and this forum is 1% of the fandom any way.
I'm out
Cheers!

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:12 pm**

So... Back on topic:
Now that the poll has ended, will an official server be made?

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:20 pm**

Galahad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:12 pm So... Back on topic:
Now that the poll has ended, will an official server be made?

Yes.
It will go active during the course of the weekend and I shall post a link here.

Posted: **Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:24 pm**

Fantastic!

Look forward to joining it.

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:29 pm**

Do you guys need someone who has experience running the SA server because I've got a rather large gamer Discord going with bots and all. I wouldn't mind assisting if it is required.

Posted: **Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:30 pm**

Tigris Astartes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:29 pm Do you guys need someone who has experience running the SA server because I've got a rather large gamer Discord going with bots and all. I wouldn't mind assisting if it is required.

Let's chat on Discord about this.

Posted: **Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:03 am**

Stop this frivolous argument!

Where is the discord channel?

Posted: **Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:09 am**

Ryall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:03 amWhere is the discord channel?

https://discord.gg/34m6FGT

Posted: **Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:07 pm**

*notices your discord channel* OwO whats this?

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm**

idk if you know about discord having an SA server, but if you haven't yet you should change discord server location to SA.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:13 pm**

I think it was already set up that way from the start. Or it got changed soon after being set up.

ZA Furries

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