ZA Furries

It's late and I'm a bit tired so bare with me but I want to get this out while I remember. Also note that this is purely for my own thinking. I have not decided upon anything nor have I discussed this with Valerion. That will depend on the votes received here. Basically what I'm considering (and apparently some want) what I will call public moderation with two features.

1) I would create a new moderation subforum. This will be viewable by everyone but only moderators and admins will have posting privileges. It's purpose is to publicly record moderator decisions with one thread per user (created as needed) which records all infractions and punishments. This is the same system that is used on SoFurrry. The idea is that then everyone knows that action has been taken regarding specific users instead of doing it quietly. That is also the negative in that everyone knows action has been taken against people. But it should help clear up confusion and make it clear when things are happening.

2) Thread locks are already (usually) accompanied by a reason. That should continue obviously. I would also consider making a thread as above for deleted threads so that people are aware when things are removed and why they were removed. Making a note of post deletions is also possible but unlike thread locks or deletions, the mention of the deleted content might still lead some to respond to it.

I simply want to know who is in favour of these. Comments are also fine but should not stray off topic.

I honestly feel this would do more harm than good.

For starters, listing all the drama, even if it isn't described, but only listed, in a single thread, is probably a bad idea. Sure, it's a bit more than just drama, but still.

It's also just not necessary. There isn't enough such things to justify having a subforum just for it

Status quo - least drama. I don't want to trawl other people's drama & I don't want the humiliation of other people knowing MY drama.

Those are risks I worry about. It's partly why I've rather kept things private. However, based on what I've heard from some people, there are also users who feel there is not enough information about what happens with regard to moderation and sometimes this leads to falsehoods. For example someone mentioned Tetsudra being banned. However he voluntarily left the forum when he was away for so long and is not currently, nor was he previously, banned.

I feel having a list of infractions on per-user basis is useful for archieval purposes. For newbies like me, it would give me a chance to see where the boundaries are and know what scars to not poke at.
So I support the first option.

The second option, er, no. In my opinion. Just no. If a thread is deleted or hidden because it was deemed against rules and such, seems pointless to then have them in a viewable area. Because their locking\edits should be self explanatory.

Honestly… I do not feel that we need these rules and changes because 1% of the furries on here keep on fighting.
This was normally a problem that fixes itself.
What changed?
What does ZAfur have that they want?

I'm all for transparency. I would be in support of both, but I'm concerned that proposal 2 may introduce redundancy/ambiguity with regard to the existing policy regarding taboo and/or illegal subjects. However, considering that I strongly believe said policy to be stupid, if it were to be amended to allow meta-discussion sparked by things mentioned in the deletions thread then I would be satisfied.

Im for both

@ proposal 1

Sudan Red wrote:Status quo - least drama. I don't want to trawl other people's drama & I don't want the humiliation of other people knowing MY drama.

If this is a problem then it could just be made anonymous,
Examples
"User temporary banned for harassment"
"Posts removed for containing gore"

That means everyone who knows who was harassing or posting gore was dealt with, but 4 months later some new person won't immediately judge someone they don't know as a harasser /gore poster, but they will see that both those are not allowed and action will get taken on it

Considering that my "file" would have a fair bit of detail on it, I'm not hugely fond of idea 1 - in all honestly, it actually makes me slightly uncomfortable.

I don't know what it would achieve other than stigmatizing the more controversial users.

Sev wrote:I don't know what it would achieve other than stigmatizing the more controversial users.

The main goal would be that users are aware when and what actions are taken so they do not think users are breaking rules without any reprimands and so that they don't think users are punished or banned when they have been.

Can't that simply be appended to the offending post?

Not if the post or thread is deleted. Also it wouldn't inform users unless they read all posts. I'd wager most just read what sounds interesting to them, the same way I use other forums.

So instead, you're proposing implementing what amounts to a wanted poster?

It's more like a newspaper report than a wanted poster. And I'm not proposing them, I'm gathering information on possible proposals.

"I dont want people to see I got banned"
Don't do ban worthy things then

Making it anonymous with just the message that someone was banned solves that issue anyway.

Being banned is punishment enough, without the additional humiliation.

Proposal number one seems to me to be a double-edged sword, and hence I disagree with it - while it would allow everyone to be aware of the motives behind punishments and disciplinary action, it could be used as a basis to attack the characters of others. Additionally, although one could argue that it is humiliating only when one does something wrong, we are in a community in which the reputations of others have been attacked on numerous occasions (with one such incident currently on-going), and I do not think it wise to give such attackers more ammunition or reason to create drama or controversy. SoFurry is a much larger and more diverse community than ours, and so the reputations of many on such a list are at least partially shielded by others' lack of knowing the punished.

An alternative might be to keep a history of infarctions and punishments, but make it private and viewable only by request from the user (and he or she may only see his or her own record).

Proposal number two is one with which I agree to an extent: Keeping a track record of locked threads seems to me to be somewhat redundant, given that a) the staff member locking generally posts a message explaining why it is being locked, and b) those who would be interested in knowing why it is locked tend mostly to be those viewing the thread and among the first to see the lock message, anyways. Keeping a track record of post deletions, however, seems to me to be a very useful and novel idea, given that these may be more easily missed.

I'm all for transparency, just a quick rundown of why certain decisions are made. So even if one doesn't understand or agree with a decision, the logic behind it can be followed.

I wouldn't really be in favour of a forum "permanent record" though. Once one has waited out their ban, let them come back with no lingering stigma.

Tacking on a "User has been reprimanded for [this post|<description of deleted post>]." seems to me a good way of doing it. It shows, inline, what behaviour is not tolerated. And it also "fades" with time, so reputations are salvageable.

Like the UK furs forum, that has an 18 or something page long thread on banned members

I'm going to have to go with neither of them.

Although they do have the potential to be beneficial, I can bet that in the end it won't have the desired effect people are hoping for. The active community here is rather small, and all I can see from either of those is just more fuel for those here to use against one another in their arguments. And isn't that what we're here to stop?