ZA Furries

So guys... So stuff is happening that I don't wanna get into.
Personal.

So both me and Tocs can't give our CR duties full attention. And Galahad has politely offered to lend us a hand.
So please welcome Galahad as a temporary CR untill such a time where we can give our full attention to the position once more.

I want to point out however. The CR position has always been, and will always be a voluntary one.
I volunteered. To Ivic when I started two years ago. There was never a vote to appoint me.

This is not a popularity contest. If it were. A vote would have been great.

Welcome on-board to Galahad.

Congrats, fossilchicken!

Okay. I'm going to make it clear from the beginning, because I know this is literally all you're going to take out of this if I don't, that I am not commenting on the choices made. In all honestly, I'm sure many of us agree that he is a good candidate, heck he'll probably do a better job (whatever that is) than both you and Tocs combined, but!

Adagio wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:45 am I want to point out however. The CR position has always been, and will always be a voluntary one.
I volunteered. To Ivic when I started two years ago. There was never a vote to appoint me.
This is not a popularity contest. If it were. A vote would have been great.

Lemme get this straight. You're saying that the appointment of someone as Community Representative, the person who is going to represent me in the community, the 'face' of the community so to speak, isn't something I, a member of the community, has a choice in? So any Tom, Dick and Harry off the street can just volunteer and be appointed just like that no matter who or what they are? Because of that's the case then that's absolutely absurd.

Yes. I know you probably put that paragraph in there just because you didn't want the same issue happening as with Badge way back when. But that doesn't change the fact that it sounds utterly redonkulous.

Again, not judging the choice, because I probably would have voted for the comedian anyway, just... that particular choice of words. Yup. That is all.

Can we just name the CR's something else? Because people take the title way too serious. The position is there to be the bridge between users and admins, they have nothing to do with furthering or standing up for the Furry cause.

CR was probably chosen because the title "Stable person with feels" is too long.

CyntheWightRabbit wrote:So any Tom, Dick and Harry off the street can just volunteer and be appointed just like that no matter who or what they are? Because of that's the case then that's absolutely absurd.

This is not true. Although a vote would indeed show the approval of the community as a whole, appointment as a CR is not automatic and instantaneous for anyone who applies. Anyone can apply, but not everyone will be appointed. This is because the applicant's conduct and past behaviour is reviewed by the whole staff.
Additionally, as was in the case with Badge, the community can bring into question or reject the appointment of a CR if they find it necessary to do so, and the staff will comply with the wishes of the overall community.

So it is not just an arbitrary selection of whoever wants to that is unchangeable and absolute.

I'm just going to take the fact that you didn't reply to the actual point I was making with my post as a sign that you understood where it came from and at least agree that I have a right to feel that way. (Because we all know the point was the fact that 'any Tom, Dick and Harry' can be appointed and NOT the fact that the community had no say in who their representative became. Yup.)

"It's better the ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission" eh? This is the level of maturity we're dealing with. And yes, the admins on here are totally capable of making non-prejudiced decisions; I mean it's not like we haven't had evidence before of them letting a friend- oh wait.

Again, as I said, I'm not bashing the choice, because you'll do great. It is a job made for you. Just... you know why. I've repeated it enough times.

"Stable" person with feels... *looks at our current admins*
"Stable."

Lol. Hahaha. Best joke you've made... ever, Cape.

As community representative, I'll take up your concern with the staff, and see if appointment can be handled more democratically in the future. I may not like the way you expressed it, but the point is a valid one.

Now... About the rest of your post. To be brutally frank, Cyn - with your track record, I am surprised you have not choked on your own hypocrisy when it comes to insinuating others are unstable or immature. When any of them makes a post, at least I generally do not have to wade through dripping sarcasm and childish snarkiness to get to the point. If you want this community to work and be more homely - the idea you at least seemed to empathize with in V&S - then how about you set an example and actually be a pleasant person to be around? It'd be a refreshing change to see someone here actually have a positive opinion of you.

Guy complains about people not understanding his posts, doesn't understand other peoples posts.

I didn't say anything about the admins. Just tried to explain the the Community part refers to the feels and the Representative part is highly limited to the forum.

I am very bad at naming things. "A representative from the community" became "Community Representative". I am open to the idea of changing the name, if people can suggest something.

Purpose of a CR:

• Make the forum a place people want to come back to, by engaging them. Rules are enforced by the Mods and Admins.
• Welcome new furs on-board (in line with the previous one)
• Tell the Mods/Admins when we're being bone-headed. Even if you don't always get listened to.
• Sometimes forum members have something to say/contribute/etc, but they don't feel they can approach the mods/admins. In this case the CRs are appropriate, as they can articulate the matter upawards, and perhaps phrase it better than it was before.

It is intended as a forum-specific construct. However, the perfect person for the role will often be a community asset in general as well.

How about... moderators?

The point was to have a split between community reps and moderators.

What Valerion just described fits the definition of a moderator. As it stands there is only one moderator, namely Ivic, who used to be the only CR, therefore unifying the two would be both straightforward and make perfect sense. The roles are pretty much one and the same. You're just trying to call them something less intimidating but that's not doing anyone any favours.

I've had this debate before, so not to highjack the thread too much, I will end my side with this very bad analogy (like all analogies, it doesn't really capture the soul of the argument):

A moderator is here to enforce the rules, and keep the place from burning down in flamewars and drama. By whatever means are neccesary at the time, whether it be warnings, post removal or banning. They are often disliked, for this very reason. A CR is here to help people feel welcome, to help them express themselves, to care for the community, in a sense.

Social worker vs police officer, perhaps? Yes, the nice policeman can help with all the above. But he stays a figure of authority, and he may not have the training/aptitude to always apply the correct amount of empathy. Some do, some don't, it's not the biggest factor in their selection. A social worker is completely about empathy, and less about strictly following the rules. He/she may even argue that the rules were applied too rigidly, or uinfairly, or in an inconsitent manner. Or that enforcing the rules at the time was the wrong thing to do, or shouldn't be read quite so literally in the specific case.

There is IMO space for social workers and police officers.

I've made my share of mistakes on the forum. Burned some bridges I shouldn't have. I wish I had a CR with some of them to point them out at the time. But what is past is past, and can't be changed.
I've had my share of arguments with the CRs, but I like to think we work together better these days, after I made some changes to our relationship. Some of it partly due to feedback from Leeward, I will admit. But this is an ongoing thing, and it changes from day to day.

I don't think the distinction really matters. Tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. Yes they have different connotations, but I've seen many forums where moderators also have duties similar to what the CRs here have. It's like a fancy restaurant calling their waiting staff "Service Ambassadors" (yes I've been to one such place): they're still waiters no matter what you call them, and you just look ridiculous trying to claim otherwise.

Seriously... we're having this discussion/argument AGAIN? I obviously need to take my animalpeopleinterest-forum-with-15-active-members way more seriously than I have been.

Believe me, I'm tired of having this debate too.

The least you could do is offer constructive input instead of just sarcastically whining about it... but that's none of my business.

Sudan Red wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:59 pm Seriously... we're having this discussion/argument AGAIN? I obviously need to take my animalpeopleinterest-forum-with-15-active-members way more seriously than I have been.

Of course it sounds dumb when you say it like that.

I feel like we're going to end up naming them "The Approachables". We'll make three movies about them, each movie having a clever subtitle.

Leeward, if you feel so strongly about this issue, I can request the staff to review and discuss it in an official capacity. Yes, there is overlap, but given the small number of the active forum users, roles cannot be specialized to their theoretical extent. Maybe as the forum grows - and I hope that it does - the two roles of CR and moderator can diverge more clearly. You both have a point, but I see nothing that can be gained from a heated debate.

My own suggestion is that let's work together and help the forum grow, and if we still cannot agree that there is a difference, we can discuss it officially.

Oh honey... I aint whining. The rest of you are definitely whining though. Complaining about a position no-one really wants is like complaining that you can't be a trash collector or sewage plant worker. Would you WANT to be? Would you care who did it as long as it got done? Doing a shitty, emotionally draining task that no-one is truly qualified to do and doesn't really bring you any prestige/power. Definitely have that on MY Xmas wish list, I tell you what!

PS Cape - can they wear red spandex? I'd be hip to that...

Sudan Red wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:14 pm PS Cape - can they wear red spandex? I'd be hip to that...

No, it's an action/drama!

Approachables: approach with caution
Approachables 2: on approach
Approachables 3: final approach

Galahad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:13 pmLeeward, if you feel so strongly about this issue, I can request the staff to review and discuss it in an official capacity.

Pardon my doubtfulness but I tried that multiple times when I had your position and it came to nothing, hence my resignation.

However, if you think it's worth discussing again, I'm all for it, and I'll try to approach the matter with an open mind. I'm always happy to have my cynicism proven wrong.

You both have a point, but I see nothing that can be gained from a heated debate.

Sudan Red wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:14 pm Oh honey... I aint whining. The rest of you are definitely whining though.

It was heated and/or whiny? Sorry if I came across as aggressive but that wasn't my intention. As far as I'm concerned I'm just pointing out flawed logic.

I will take it up with the staff as soon as they are all available, and see if we should redefine the role.

I understand this entire ordeal is upsetting to some. We are not deaf to your concerns. But we can't change these issues instantly or at anyone's whim. Please, have patience. As a CR, I will bring this up, and see what can be done.

Leeward wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:24 pm I'm always happy to have my cynicism proven wrong.

Liar, liar!

Leeward wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:24 pmAs far as I'm concerned I'm just pointing out flawed logic.

Hubbawhat?! There was logic in my "sarcastic whining"? This shall need to be addressed! I prefer to keep my sarcastic remarks logic-free!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The item is now on the agenda, officially. I can make no guarantee that there will be a change, but I will do everything I can to make sure the concerns here are heard properly - those of Cyn and of Lee.

Thanks Galahad, I appreciate the proactive attitude!

Galahad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:01 am Now... About the rest of your post. To be brutally frank, Cyn - with your track record, I am surprised you have not choked on your own hypocrisy when it comes to insinuating others are unstable or immature.

Because I am in an administrative position whereby I am trusted with making choices that respect the community as a whole and should hold the community's best interests in mind. You got me. I was totally commenting on you as people and not as admins; 'leaders' of the community. How will I recover from thi-

You know what. It doesn't matter. The fact that you understood my point is enough. And, although I doubt anything is actually going to come of it, I can at least appreciate any effort put in. So thanks.

Your exact, sarcastic words were "stable person with feels". That sounds personal rather than administrative to me. Don't try and worm your way out of culpability.

Leeward, I am in the process of talking with the staff. Valerion will hear the consensus just under one week from now.

Is this a troll? Because I don't understand how people can get so worked up over stuff that happens on the forum.